Hi Richard, here are quick answers, but I will then run out of time and I am not sure to be able to continue the discussion on that pace in the next few days (which may be a good thing).
Le Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 08:48:22AM -0700, Richard Hartmann a écrit : > > all teams are well within their delegations. If the DPL had felt that > to not be the case, I am sure he would have updated them accordingly > or created a new one. I will not second guess the wills of the DPL, and anyway, a new DPL will be elected very soon. If you think that formal management is necessary (and I do not), can you ask him for setting up a delegation ? If not, can the trademark team refrain from nominating managers ? > Our main concern is that we need a way to protect our users from > unexpected behavior in a somewhat automated and scalable manner, and > keep those results and their records out in the open. The usual way is to report issues, open bugs on the BTS, and work on a solution. Sorry, but here I see at worse fears, uncertainty and doubt, or at best ambitions to have a more unified system, but no concrete problem or complains. You are using a very heavy hammer, without having participating to problem reporting and problem solving before on this mailing list. And ambitions are great but somebody's ambitions should not become somebody else's obligations. > Your main concern seems to be that you will be forced to conform to an > arbitrary rule-set enforced top-down. My main concern is that what is being done is a strong departure from what I felt is a core Debian value: the principle that the one who does should usually be the one who decides. > As a specific proposal in light of your concern, might I suggest you > simply join the discussion about the test set? Sure. Unless I am mistaken, it has not started, isn't it ? There are also discussions that did not yet lead to a conclusion, in particular on the use of cloud-init backports. I am not happy to see people comming out of the blue and informing us that they self-appointed as decision makers on issues that include whether we can use a backport or not. We have been doing this for a while, and if people have a different opinion on what should be done, the best way forward is to step in the maintainance of the cloud-init package (in coordination with Ubuntu, which is our Upstream here), and work out how to get Stable updates, etc. To summarise it with a strong image, you come to a discussion with a gun, and after aiming at peoples heads, you say "let's do some great work together". If you are interested in the cloud images, can't you participate as a regular developer, rather than as a person who has the power to pull out the plug from other people's projects ? I feel that we are treated as potentially dangerous contributors who need to be controlled to prevent some mess to happen and damage Debian's name. This is highly demotivational. Cheers, -- Charles Plessy Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan
