On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:13:08AM +1100, Peter Moulder wrote: > > - For the one application that I ever run in wine, installing > msttcorefonts made the difference between whether that application > was usable under wine or not: without msttcorefonts, most text > fields just didn't show up, making the application impossible to > use. > > If that were true of every application (a premise I suppose to be > false, but I wouldn't know),
No, it's not true. We have plenty of free TrueType fonts in the archive. If there aren't installed (or aren't properly installed), that's a bug in the respective package. > - If, rather, there's no other package that can be installed to get > text to show up, but it affects only *most* applications, then > Suggests may well be sufficient: the question is only whether enough > DFSG software can be run without installing msttcorefonts that it's > worthwhile having wine in the archive; how much software it can't > run is irrelevant. The package description may well need to be > changed accordingly, making it clear that this package only enables > running this small set of software, not windows software generally. The aim is to run win32 software in general, that's what the package should describe. > - Regarding the statement > > ‘Not all policy violations are serious bugs.’, > > some relevant Debian policy excerpts: > > Packages that do not conform to the guidelines denoted by _must_ > (or _required_) will generally not be considered acceptable for > the Debian distribution. > ... > These classifications are roughly equivalent to the bug severities > _serious_ (for _must_ or _required_ directive violations), > [other correspondances elided]. > > (The policy directive that this bug violates, cited above, uses > `must'.) Correct. > The most relevant excerpt from the > http://release.debian.org/etch_rc_policy.txt file that's already > been mentioned is that > > "Recommends:" lines do not count as requirements. > > (in the context of non-free dependencies). Of course, this file is > specific to the etch release, and was cited prior to the etch > release. > > The relevant excerpt from the http://release.debian.org/lenny-goals.txt > file that's been mentioned is: > > * No unmet recommends relations inside main > Advocate: Luk Claes > Description: Packages in main should be able to satisfy all recommend > relations in main. > Bug-Tag: recommends > State: confirmed > > OTOH, the file itself only describes these as "goals", and doesn't > explicitly say that all such bugs should be marked as severity Serious > or higher. Do we have any other information as to whether such bugs > should be marked as Serious or whether it suffices to have the > specified Bug-Tag ? The release team isn't given powers to override Policy or the DFSG. This can only be done via GR (as has happened before). > - The deduction > > Since Wine is all about emulating a non-free OS, it makes sense to > recommend something that's an integral part of that OS, its fonts; > undoubtedly, many applications Wine is trying to run will assume > they're there. > > does not follow. Linux and the Gnu tools are all about emulating the > proprietary Unix OS, but that doesn't mean that they should > recommend non-free components, even components that one might > consider as core to Unix as Windows' fonts are to Windows, and even > if that means that many Unix applications won't run on Linux/Gnu > platform. What's important is is what software does run, not what > software doesn't run. Running all win32 applications is important, but since we have free fonts to do it, depending on Microsoft fonts doesn't make any sense. > - If the proposition > > Anyone willing to run Wine in the first place is unlikely to be > against installing anything from contrib > > or the stronger proposition > > everyone who runs wine is as willing to install anything from contrib > as they are software from main > > were true, then it may well support putting wine in contrib, but it > wouldn't be sufficient to support allowing wine in main to recommend > or depend on software in contrib or non-free. That would require > propositions about the definition or purpose of the main/contrib > distinction. > > As for whether the above propositions are true, it is relevant to > note that wine isn't exlusively for running non-Free software, just > as computers generally aren't exclusively for running non-Free > software, even if the majority of software or the majority of > Windows software were non-Free. A search on sourceforge reveals a > number of Free software packages that are written against the > Windows API. Right. For the record, I regularly used wine to test win32-loader during its development, and never had to depend on those fonts. > - Unfortunately there appears not to have been any news re the > liberation fonts. > > Does anyone know how to allow software to be usable without installing > either msttcorefonts or the liberation fonts, such as by using the > ttf-freefont and ttf-bitstream-vera packages already mentioned (or > ttf-dejavu) ? I didn't do anything special to make wine work without them. The problems you experienced were probably just bugs that need fixing. -- Robert Millan <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
