Am Mittwoch, 30. November 2016, 07:46:31 CET schrieb Klaus Ethgen: > > Also, *if* you want to make this about systemd vs. SysV again: > Well, systemd, or better the religiosity, systemd is spread, is part of > this particular problem. Exactly that is the case, why so many users > oppose systemd.
I fully agree with that. As I pointed out before the fuss about systemd is not just technical, it is a social issue with the way upstream receives and reacts to any kind of feedback that criticizes the way systemd goes about things. > However, this should be fight somewhere else. Here we have a real > problem, that is easily fixable. Look at devuan or debian jessie. Just > do not link against libsystemd what pulls in too many uncontrollable > dependencies. Also agreed to that… libsystemd is almost one third of the size of libc6.so here… and it seems upstream basically stuffes *everything* into it, including reading process attributes that IMHO would be a task for a *different* shared object like the much lighter libprocps.so.6.0.0. But the discussion would need to be brought upstream, it just seems that these days no one dares to do that. I am not keen to subscribe to systemd-devel mailing list ever again after my last attempt to channel user feedback to this list and having been attacked with "now you are being a dick" by Lennart personally who on the other side rightfully complained about being attacked in person himself. (I unsubscribed from debian-devel mailing list back then for similar reasons.) There is a split in the community that has never been healed, people just try to ignore it, but I doubt that this bug report would be the right place to go about this. And I wonder whether there is someone who would muster to bring up the courage to bring this up with upstream again in a constructive way. Closing with a note to Michael: I learned to know you at DebConf 2016 and I value your work. However I didn´t see what you called an ad hominen attack as actually being one. (I may refrain from any further comment here as I think its not really the place to discuss it.) Thank you, -- Martin
