On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 03:35:58PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 11:12:03PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 10:37:52AM +0100, Jens Seidel wrote: > > > PS: Frans, in your last mail to this issue (many months ago) you just > > > wrote that you do not want to reply to me until I calm down. This is not > > > necessary. I'm really able to participate in serious discussions but the > > > problem is there there was *never* such an (public) discussion and never > > > good reasons for this decision. > > > PS2: Maybe it's not clear to everyone my this mail contains again a > > > little bit sarcasm. Just in case you didn't noticed it or want to use it > > > as an excuse to not deal with this issue ... > > > Welcome to the d-i team, this is the way that people who are not in the one > > true straigth line, or humble enough, or whatever, are dealt with. > > Trying to win points again by showing us all how you're always constructive > in your dealings with the installer team?
No, i just find it interesting that Jens seems to have problems very similar to me, while everyone is telling me : you are the only one who has trouble with the kernel team, you must be an associal idiot. > > But then, you are right to voice your critic of this ambient, i was myself > > told to be silent about this, but i do strongly believe that the d-i > > leadership is dead wrong in this approach, rejecting discussion, trying to > > marginalize those they disagree with, and so on, and i think that they > > should > > be reminded regularly of their errors, > > Yes, Sven, you think *everyone* should be reminded regularly of *all* > errors, where "errors" are defined as "any decision that you disagree with". You know, if most *everyone* had not been ignoring this mess, or sided fully with frans and co, like you and the DPL did, we would have solved this months ago, and everyone would be happy coding and working on the release for etch. The fact that the DPL is making a mess of the situation, while he was asked to mediate (insisting i need to first recognize that everything is mostly my fault before things get better, and not recognizing that i am not the only one who created this mess), and that the d-i leadership (well, to my knowledge joeyh and frans), reject all efforts i make, is why we are still in this situation. And i don't think the situation will ever change, and others will probably suffer as i did, as Jens's example showed. > And then you think it's strange that people don't want to work with you. Sorry, but there is a fundamental problem here. Frans told me to be extra nice and all, but then he refuses communication, and tells me things like "FUCK YOU", which is well, i don't know. And i see now that their behaviour is fully mirrored in how they handle Jens, so i mentioned this. Furthermore, i don't care if they want to work with me or not, they can go ahead and play in their own corner, but they should stop hindering me to work on debian, for the benefit of our users. That is the central point. But no, nobody sees that, and so i have to be meak and submissive, and play by the rules while being bashed and insulted, in hope that some day they would deign give me back the d-i svn commit access, and even then, i will never be able to contradict them on a technical issue, or they will probably just pull the rought from under me again. So, stop over-simplifying the issue, and please think again about this mess we are in and your responsabilities in it. Right now, i know i am right, i am making effort, i am doing work with the childish constraints put uppon me, i have made multiple one-sided effort to solve the issue, but they where rejected. The only thing i have resisted doing, is to fork d-i, as the DPL urged me to do. You can easily guess why i have not gone this route. But when efforts to solve the issue are meet with : "FUCK YOU" and "My honest opinion of it: the biggest load of self-satisfied and self-centered crap I've ever seen", well, i kind of think that the problem is not on my side, like you and everyone else is trying to insist it is. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
