On 3/18/20 3:26 PM, Justin B Rye wrote: > Sure, and indeed I nearly mentioned "floppy" disk. But "hard disk" > isn't a case where the new thing has taken over the old meaning; > people don't generally say "pass me the hard disk" when they mean an > SD card.
That's because you are comparing apples and oranges. Despite most computers shipping with SSDs these days, people will still say "I'll install that the software onto hard-disk" simply because that has become a synonym for a disk built into your computer. An SD card is considered a removable storage medium, hence you wouldn't use it in this context. > And when things change, we don't *have* to change the > definitions of our words to match the new things; we don't *have* to > redefine "floppy disk" to mean "USB thumbdrive" - and indeed we > didn't. There are often alternative options. In particular, the development of language doesn't follow logic and even science because the average Joe usually doesn't have the expert knowledge to use the correct terminology. > What do you think of the options suggested so far? > >>> I don't know what I'd suggest instead, but possibilities include: >>> "Install the GRUB boot loader to hardware" >>> "Install the GRUB boot loader on this system" >>> "Install the GRUB boot loader on the system disk" >>> "Install the GRUB boot loader to disk" >>> "Install the GRUB boot loader to a non-volatile storage device" > > And a new suggestion: > "Install the GRUB boot loader" Well, the thing is that I think it's more important what the commonly used language is and if you use your Google-fu to check how common the sentence "install GRUB to hard disk" and ""install GRUB to SSD" is, you will understand what I mean. While I understand the reasoning of this change, I don't think it actually helps improving the user experience. I again have the impression that this is a change that is made for the sake of making a change and now we're searching for arguments to justify the change. Normally, you make changes because you have identified a problem from user reports. But this is basically backwards, you see the need for a change and you're now trying to find a justification for it. >> You also have to keep in mind that this needs to be translated >> into other languages. I have the impression that a lot of these >> discussions about deprecating apparently older terms revolve >> around the English language only. > > Well, that's good news, isn't it? If it turns out it's only the > English version that has the problem and the translations are > futureproof, the translators won't need to do any work here. For German: - hardware - Hardware - this system - dieses System - hard disk - Festplatte - system disk - Systemplatte - storage medium - Speichermedium - disk - Platte (so a platter) - non-volatile storage device - nicht-fluechtiges Speichergeraet So, if I asked my dad which one he finds easiest to understand, I can assure you that "Festplatte" is the term he would use for the built-in disk, independent of whether it's an SSD, an HDD, an MO-drive, a ZIP drive, an SD card, an NMVE card and so on, simply because he doesn't understand the difference of most of these and doesn't care. >>>> When are we going to replace "REWIND", "PAUSE", F. FWD", "PLAY" and >>>> "RECORD" on playback devices since we are no longer dealing with tapes >>>> and "re-cording" and "re-winding" does not actually reflect anymore >>>> what's happening? >>> >>> "Record" and "cord" are etymologically unconnected, so the only dead >>> metaphor in that list is "REWIND" - and why use that when you could >>> use the self-explanatory standard ideogram "⏪"? >> >> I don't think that's the case. Sony used to call their tape recorders >> "tape corder" which is why all cassette decks started with a model >> number "TC-". > > Would you like to make a bet? *My* guess is that it's from "cor" > meaning "heart". > > (I always assumed those were Sony tape *cassette* recorders...) No: > https://digitalgallery.bgsu.edu/collections/item/8353 The first tape device that Sony made was a reel-to-reel recorder, the compact cassette was invented in the mid 60ies by Philips, almost 20 years after Sony was founded in 1946. >>> (Mind you, when I was first using a GNU/Linux desktop back in the >>> nineties it took me *ages* to discover that the only way of getting a >>> simple volume control knob was to pretend I was a professional DJ and >>> search for a "mixer" application. Nobody *starts* as an expert!) >> >> Exactly. Terminology doesn't necessarily have to be self-explaining >> but consistent. Don't forget that people also want to be able to >> do some Google search when they have problems and unusual terminology >> in Debian doesn't necessarily make it simpler. > > That was an example where developers standardised on an unintelligible > piece of terminology and are *still* using it for no better reason > than tradition; I'm standing up and saying that *I'm* one of the > people this adversely affected, back in the days before google. Not sure I understand your particular problem. Someone new to computers would look for a speaker symbol in the task bar and both GNOME and KDE have had that speaker icon for at least 20 years now. I assume that scenario is a problem when using a minimal window manager like FVWM or i3 which don't have any obvious items to control the volume, so you would have to do a Google search to find out what the sound control application is. Adrian -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer - glaub...@debian.org `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
