Dear all,
Thank you all for the very fruitful discussion yesterday!
Jörg, thank you for providing valuable insights into how the FTP team
works. It would be great to document this knowledge somewhere—perhaps in
the Wiki or RST.
Here are some notes from the meeting. Luke, thanks for setting up the
technical infrastructure for it.
================
*FTP meeting workshop held on July 12, 2025., 14:00 - 15:00, Debconf25*
*What Was Discussed*
The meeting focused on addressing concerns within the Debian community
regarding the FTP team's operations, particularly the delays in processing
new packages.
Key discussion points included:
-
*FTP Team Responsibilities: *The team's work is divided into three main
areas:
- *Running the Archive:* This includes day-to-day operational tasks,
managing software releases, and fixing issues like broken packages.
- *Coding:* Maintaining and improving the Debian Archive Kit (DAK), the
software that runs the archive. The code is mostly Python, SQL, and Perl.
- *New Package Processing:* Reviewing new software submissions to ensure
they meet Debian's standards for licensing and copyright.
-
*New Package Processing Delays: *it was acknowledged that new packages
often wait a long time
in the queue. This delay is a significant point of frustration for
Debian contributors.
- *Causes for Delays:*
The delays are attributed to several factors:
- *Manual Review:* Every file in a new package is checked manually by a
team member to ensure it complies with Debian's legal and technical rules.
- *Legal Uncertainty:* The current review process is based on US export
laws that may no longer be relevant. The team is waiting for final legal
guidance before changing its procedures.
- *Technical Bottleneck:* All processing happens on a single, central
server ("FTP master host"). This makes it difficult to grant
access to more
people and scale up the review work.
-
*Communication: *The FTP team is often perceived as a "black box" because
contributors have little visibility into
the status of their submitted packages. While it's possible to ask for
updates on IRC, many people are not aware of this or are hesitant to do so.
- *Proposed Solutions:*
- The main proposed solution is to move the new package processing work
to a separate host. This would allow more people to safely participate in
reviews without needing access to the critical main archive server.
- There was a strong call to improve transparency by documenting the
team's internal processes on a public platform like the Debian Wiki.
*Existing Problems*
- The new package review process is slow and acts as a bottleneck for
Debian contributors.
- There is a lack of communication and transparency about the status of
packages in the review queue.
- The current technical architecture, which relies on a single host,
makes it difficult to onboard new team members and improve processing times.
- Progress on redesigning the review process is blocked by the need for
updated legal guidance on export laws.
- More developers are needed to help maintain and modernize the archive
software.
*Action Items*
1. *Finalize Legal Questions:* Formulate and send the necessary
questions to lawyers to get clear guidance on current legal requirements,
which will unblock changes to the review process.
2. *Improve Documentation:* Create public documentation on the Debian
Wiki (or RST-Markdown doc) explaining the FTP team's workflow, especially
the new package review process, to increase transparency.
3. *Plan for Technical Migration:* Begin the technical work to separate
the new package processing queue from the main FTP host. This involves
modifying the process upload and process new components of the archive
software.
4. *Recruit More Help:* Create a clear, public list of tasks and needed
features to encourage more people to contribute to coding and improving the
archive tools.
================
You can also find the notes here:
https://pad.dc25.debconf.org/p/3-package-acceptance-in-debian-challenges-and-o
Feel free to add to or update the notes.
Best regards,
Anton
Am Sa., 12. Juli 2025 um 08:21 Uhr schrieb Andreas Tille <[email protected]>:
> Hi Thorsten,
>
> Thanks for sharing your perspective — I really appreciate it.
>
> Am Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 10:14:16PM +0000 schrieb Thorsten Alteholz:
> > > I’d love to have some open brainstorming about improvements and
> > > alternatives in our archive processing and admin workflows (including
> > > DAK).
> >
> > Just some thoughts for your discussion: The results of my trainee
> experiment
> > are rather impressive. A new trainee who had no ideas about any ftpmaster
> > workflow should do what he thought was best to check a package. After
> some
> > time he "reinvented" the current procedure.
>
> Sounds promising. Nicolas Mora will join from remote. We'll highly
> estimate his insight.
>
> > So from my point of view the
> > workflow for NEW processing is fine and there is no need to turn it
> upside
> > down. Of course this task is one of the most boring tasks imaginable and
> not
> > everyone is capable of doing it.
>
> In my view, some of the tension between the FTP team and the wider
> developer community may come from mutual misunderstandings. The purpose
> of today’s meeting is not to turn anything upside down — unless the team
> itself (including any new members) agrees that changes could make the
> work more effective and enjoyable.
>
> It’s important to me that this essential task is handled by enough
> people to match the workload — and that those doing the work have the
> space to shape how it’s done, in a way they find satisfying. I believe
> adding new members is part of that, and they should have a say in
> whether or not to adopt new procedures.
>
> I've sensed frustration on both sides (and I worry I may have
> unintentionally contributed to it myself). That’s why open conversation
> feels so important--and that’s the main reason we’re here today.
>
> Kind regards
> Andreas.
>
> --
> https://fam-tille.de
>
>
