-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:53 AM
To: Declan McCullagh
Cc: Eugene Leitl; fork; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: When Nannies Rule the Net (kinda long, sorry) (fwd)
>>>>> "D" == Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
D> This conversation has become tiresome.
D> At 11:49 AM 2/20/2002 -0500, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>> So, to summarize then, you have _no_ objections to my secretly
>> rifling through my neighbour's post _providing_ I then
>> hand-deliver his post for free?
D> If the neighbor agreed to it, I have no objection.
Ok. I know where you stand. Please stand far from my mail.
"Mr Jones, would you like me to fetch your mail for you?"
"Oh, yes please"
and that gives me license to secretly open, inspect and reseal it?
I'm glad I don't live you your country; in mine, that is illegal. My
point is that this same scenario be illegal with respect to email too.
D> I strongly suspect what canada.com does is permitted by their
D> TOS.
You find it, and I will shut TF up:
Canada.com privacy policy: http://www.canada.com/aboutus/privacypolicy.html
"The canada.com Network collects personally identifying
information about you only when you specifically and
knowingly provide it to us."
... and implicitly, using this service satisfies this
condition?
Canada.com TOS: http://www.canada.com/aboutus/termsofservice.html
D> You have not shown otherwise. If you don't like it, get a
D> real account somewhere else.
This is not the point, now, is it. I have, I believe, provided you
with the bits; you now have the TOS and Privacy Policy, and I have
read them both but can find no statement that says "we reserve the
right to read your emails without your knowledge and to take action
based on the contents of your emails. we reserve the right to censor
your emails should someone try to send you materials _we_ decide are
unacceptable."
You find those two statements, or statements to that effect, and I
will be quite happy to admit I have no case. As I stated before, my
_real_ mail host did try these filters, and when I asked for them to
be removed, they did so cheerfully and within an hour. Canada.com has
not responded to my emails, and there is no profile option to opt
out of this censorship service, nor any mention that this censorship
even occurs.
We come down to a question that arose early in the 90's: Is disrupting
internet a crime? In 1988 it was not, but by 1996 it was a serious
crime because people came to rely on Internet for life-critical
services. My point is that _email_ can be at least as and perhaps
more life-critical than snail-mail, and should be granted the same
basic protections.
If Mr Jones _requests_ that I scrap any letters from his sister, then
that is _his_ decision, not mine.
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
-----End Original Message-----
>From section 5 of canada.com's TOS:
You agree to not use the Service to upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit any
Content that :
(a) is unlawful, defamatory, obscene, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or
otherwise objectionable;
(b) you do not have a right to transmit under any law or under contractual or
fiduciary relationships (such as inside information, proprietary and confidential
information );
(c) infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary
rights ("Rights") of any party; or
(d) interferes with or disrupts the Service or servers or networks connected to the
Service
canada.com and its designees shall have the right to remove any Content that violates
the TOS or is otherwise objectionable. You agree that you must evaluate, and bear all
risks associated with, the use of any Content, including any reliance on the accuracy,
completeness, or usefulness of such Content..
You acknowledge and agree that canada.com may preserve Content and may also disclose
Content if required to do so by law or in the good faith belief that such preservation
or disclosure is reasonably necessary to: (a) comply with legal process; (b) enforce
these Terms of Service; (c) respond to claims that any Content violates the rights of
third-parties; or (d) protect the rights, property, or personal safety of canada.com,
its users and the public.
When you agree to the TOS, you are agreeing to allow canada.com to examine your e-mail
and stuff you post or otherwise transmit through their service. None of the foregoing
would be possible if they could not examine the data you send through their service.
These TOS are fairly industry-standard. If you want privacy, use encryption.
Otherwise, don't foam at the mouth when canada.com does stuff you AGREED to let them
do.
Jonathan
