As I understand the rules (correct me if I'm wrong) white has to make
the last move or give Black 1 prisoner.
So if black continued playing mirror, he could I think force white to
give him a point, and then I think he would win
by half a point because the komi was 1/2 and the area is symmetric.
So I believe Zen was losing, but I also don't think he could have had
any idea of that because it comes from metareasoning-- knowing that the
opponent could mirror to force him to give up half a point eventually.
If he understood that, he would have understood not to make the blunder
he did.
On 1/16/12 4:33 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
I think that the main problem was not winning or losing a mirrored
game but the blunder in late endgame by playing suicidal move. Perhaps
Zen was losing the game, so this was the reason for the blunder. But
if Zen was winning, then it was serious bug and it had nothing to do
with the mirroring itself.
---Jouni
On Jan 17, 2012 2:26 AM, "Aja Huang" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
In the last UEC Cup, the Japanese program katsunari played with
mirror Go strategy against Zen, Fuego and ManyFaces. katsunari
lost all three games.
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/Zen-katsunari.sgf.html
<http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/%7Eigo/eng/result_2nd/Zen-katsunari.sgf.html>
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-Fuego.sgf.html
<http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/%7Eigo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-Fuego.sgf.html>
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-TheManyFacesofGo.sgf.html
<http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/%7Eigo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-TheManyFacesofGo.sgf.html>
Note that Fuego lost the game finally (by filling own territories)
because I carelessly set the config with Chinese rules. Anyway,
there should be no problem for current strong Go programs on
mirror Go strategy in "EVEN or tournament games".
Aja
-----????----- From: Yamato
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:16 PM
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game
(2012/01/17 8:43), Michael Williams wrote:
If the author looks at it, could you update us? I'm always
curious
about how such things happen, especially in a bot as strong as
Zen.
Honestly I don't want to spend a lot of time on this type of problem.
--
Yamato
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