Petr, You know, just exploring this conversation is motivating to me, even if I am still seeing it as huge risk with small payoff.
I like your line of thinking in that from a top down approach, we start simple and just push it as far as it can go, acknowledging we won't likely get anywhere near the kind of depth and meaning Robert Jasiek has in his joseki works. IOW, the goal is to make some sort of "topical" progress from the top down as even a small amount here would have some value and an impact on some percentage of human players. The balance would be to spend a small amount to get a small payoff just to begin to sound out where the threshold of diminishing returns might be on the top down approach. Jim On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:21 PM, Petr Baudis <[email protected]> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 08:51:30AM -0500, Jim O'Flaherty wrote: > > What I was addressing was more around what Robert Jasiek is describing in > > his joseki books and other materials he's produced. And it is exactly > why I > > think the "explanation of the suggested moves" requires a much deeper > > baking into the participating ANN's (bottom up approach). And given what > I > > have read thus far (including your above information), I am still seeing > > the risk extraordinarily high and the payoff exceedingly low, outside an > > academic context. > > I think we may just have a different outcome in mind. To illustrate > where I think my approach could work, that could be for example > (slightly edited): > > > White Q5 was played to compel Black to extend at the bottom. > > If Black doesn’t respond, White’s pincer at K4 will be powerful. > > in > https://gogameguru.com/lee-sedol-defeats-alphago-masterful-comeback-game-4/ > > > Sure, it seems a bit outrageous, and for initial attempts, generating > utterances like > > > White 126 was a very big move which helped to ensure White’s advantage. > > is perhaps more realistic (though many of these sentences are a bit > of truisms and not terribly informative). But I'm quite convinced that > even the first example is completely plausible. > > (But I'm *not* talking about generating pages of diagrams that > describe an opening position in detail. That's to ponder when we > get the simpler things right.) > > -- > Petr Baudis > If you have good ideas, good data and fast computers, > you can do almost anything. -- Geoffrey Hinton > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >
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