I fully agree with Goncalo that it would be worth investigating how one could write an algorithm to express in English what Alpha's or DCNNigo's nets have learned, and a month ago (before her astonishing achievement in March) offerred some ideas on how this might be approached in a youtube comment on Kim's review of the Fan Hui games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHRHUHW6HQE
the relevant section of which is (abridged): "a further, "higher-level" pattern leaning algorithm might be able to induce correlation and/or implication relationships between convolutions, enabling it to begin to develop its own ontology of perceptions, perhaps by correlating convolution relationships with geometric patterns on the board image. ... i look forward to the day when someone can find a way to induce symbolic pattern descriptions of relationships between convolutions and image patterns so that betago (child of alpha) can explain its "thinking" in a way we can understand and perhaps learn from too." On 30/03/2016, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira <go...@sapo.pt> wrote: > Come on let's all calm down please. :) > > David I think the great challenge is in having good insight with AlphaGo > strength. Many Faces already provides some textual move suggestions, as > do probably other programs. Any program that doesn't use exclusively > machine learning or global search, like GNU Go, should be able to > suggest how it came about a move. > > Unfortunately no one has a clue on how to put into words what DCNN > "know", to produce really meaningful and useful feedback, justifying > decisions around candidates, etc. This is very much worth investigating. > > - Gonçalo > > > > On 30/03/2016 12:32, Álvaro Begué wrote: >>> no lack of respect for DeepMind's achievement was contained in my >>> posting; on the contrary, i was as surprised as anyone at how well she >>> did and it gave me great pause for thought. >>> >> >> Well, you wrote this: >> >>> but convolutional neural networks and monte-carlo simulators have not >>> advanced the science of artificial intelligence one whit further than >>> being engineered empirical validations of the 1940s-era theories of >>> McCullough & Pitts and Ulam respectively, albeit their conjunction >>> being a seminal validation insofar as duffing up human Go players is >>> concerned. >>> >> >> That paragraph is disrespectful of AlphaGo and every important development >> that it was built on. Theorists of the 40s didn't know jackshit about how >> to make a strong go program or any other part of AI, for that matter. >> >> This is like giving credit to the pre-Socratic philosophers for atomic >> theory, or to Genesis for the Big Bang theory. I am sure there are people >> that see connections, but no. Just no. >> >> one has to expect a certain amount of abuse when going public, and to >>> expect that eager critics will misrepresent what was said. >>> >> >> Your vast experience in the field means your opinions were formed way >> before we knew what works and what doesn't, and are essentially worthless. >> >> There, you like abuse? >> >> Álvaro. >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 6:04 AM, djhbrown . <djhbr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> one has to expect a certain amount of abuse when going public, and to >>> expect that eager critics will misrepresent what was said. >>> >>> no lack of respect for DeepMind's achievement was contained in my >>> posting; on the contrary, i was as surprised as anyone at how well she >>> did and it gave me great pause for thought. >>> >>> as to preconceived notions, my own notions are postconceived, having >>> studied artificial intelligence and biological computation over 40 >>> post-doctoral years during which i have published 50 or so >>> peer-reviewed scientific papers, some in respectable journals, >>> including New Scientist. >>> >>> On 30/03/2016, Stefan Kaitschick <skaitsch...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Your lack of respect for task performance is misguided imo. Your >>>> preconceived notions of what intelligence is, will lead you astray. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> patient: "whenever i open my mouth, i get a shooting pain in my foot" >>> doctor: "fire!" >>> http://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/home >>> https://www.youtube.com/user/djhbrown >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Computer-go mailing list >>> Computer-go@computer-go.org >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Computer-go mailing list >> Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go -- patient: "whenever i open my mouth, i get a shooting pain in my foot" doctor: "fire!" http://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/home https://www.youtube.com/user/djhbrown _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
