--- Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Petr Baudis wrote:
>
> You won't find that in computer vs computer games,
> because "tricking" the
> strong programs requires some go skill and it only
> works if you wait long
> enough before you "solve" the position. But if you
> search KGS (LeelaBot,
> CrazyStone, CzechBot) for even games where the bot
> lost against a kyu
> players you will find many. All go more or less like
> that:
Thanks for an excellent description of "the nakade
problem." I've found that it is easy for a "5kyu KGS
player" - myself - to exploit such situations. I can't
escape observing that endgame moves where a bot
permits me to take a yose point here, another there,
all the while drawing closer to a mythical 0.5 win in
it's mind, lead to the position where a miscalculation
about a group puts the program inescapably behind.
My hypothesis is that the computer is thinking the
group has a greater than 50% chance of living, but
this is true only if the computer plays a vital point
and/or the opponent fails to take that point. In
those cases, all playouts lead to a win for the
computer. But anyone about 8-10kyu is likely to spot
the vital point and take it, leading to a 100% loss
for the computer.
>From observation, mid kyu players will set up these
situations and slay the computer with a high degree of
probability - say 80%.
> A 4-6 kyu human is behind by 10-15 points in the
> midgame (at that stage the
> probability of winning is correlated with territory,
> so the MC bot is
> building fine.) He creates a 12-16 point worth
> nakade trick in a corner
> and does not solve it.The bot is happy, it thinks a
> bulk five is alive or
> something like that. Perhaps the human sacrificed
> another 15 points
> somewhere to create the trick so he should be dead
> lost. But, he only
> has to play on, reduce, etc. As the endgame
> approaches, the MC bot
> allows the reduction only until the territorial
> balance would change the
> winner. The player is happy, he turned a 25 points
> loss into a 1.5 point
> loss (assumed by the program) and has a 12 point
> surprise.
> At the end, when the whole board is decided, the
> player kills
> the bot's group and the bot turns a sure win into a
> sure loss and resigns.
>
> Because the trick can only be played by similar
> strength players (much
> weaker players can't build something like that, much
> stronger don't need
> it)
> it affects the rating of the bots. I guess
> CrazyStone could be near KGS
> 1dan
> with that solved. It is 2k now. But, of course, the
> solution may not
> come at
> the price of making the program weaker. That is the
> difficult part.
Terry McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Wherever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state
education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure implicit
obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery.
Benjamin Disraeli, Speech in the House of Commons [June 15, 1874]
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