in absolute terms, the time issue doesn't matter until some piece of code is good enough to beat a dan-level player on a 19x19 board at *any* physically realistic time constraint. which hasn't yet been demonstrated. the super slow motion tournament would be a good way for us to notice when this happens.
(i.e when program X can give program Y 9 stones when program Y has a 30 minute time limit and program X has a 24 hour time limit, and they're normally much closer in strength when they both play at 30 minute time limits). as an example, if any program could give gnugo 9 stones under these circumstances, it might be good evidence that we're within a factor of 50x in speed of being capable of beating a 1d player. s. ----- Original Message ---- From: Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: computer-go <computer-go@computer-go.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:24:38 PM Subject: Re: [computer-go] Gnugo vs commercial programs Chrilly, The computer go guys don't think of performance as a function of time, only as a kind of absolute, it plays good or it doesn't. Us computer chess people are used to thinking of it as a function of how fast the computer is and how much memory (along with how well the code is written of course.) The UCT programs, assuming they are properly coded and bug free, all play perfectly, but what really counts is how well they play given some time constraint. Again, most of the computer GO people do not think in those terms. It's very encouraging to me that Hiroshi reported the thinking times, I think he understands that it is relevant. - Don On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 21:01 +0100, Chrilly wrote: > You must test with Gnu-Go level 16.. This is according to Stefan Mertin by > far the best mode. But it takes sometimes quite a long time till Gnu-Go > makes it move. > In your experiments Gun-Go played very fast. You played fast Blitz and > Gnu-Go had a big time handicap (besides Handtalk, which plays Ultra-Blitz). > > Chrilly > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hiroshi Yamashita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "computer-go" <computer-go@computer-go.org> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:10 PM > Subject: [computer-go] Gnugo vs commercial programs > > > >I tested Gnugo against some commercial programs. > > > > Gnugo is 3.7.10. > > Level is default with --never-resign and --komi 6.5 option. > > Commercial program is max level. > > > > All game is Japanese rule and komi is 6.5. > > > > gnugo wins losses winning rate average score > > GinseiIgo5 (KCC Igo ) 11 55 0.17 -31.3 points > > Saikouhou3 (Haruka ) 13 44 0.23 -41.4 points > > TuyoiIgo4 (Go4++ ) 27 54 0.33 -11.4 points > > ShudanTaikyoku3 (Handtalk) 29 37 0.44 - 4.5 points > > > > > > GinseiIgo5 ... KCC Igo, published in 2004. > > Saikouhou3 ... Haruka, published in 2002. Latest version. > > TuyoiIgo4 ... Go4++, published in 2003. Engine is 2002 version. > > ShudanTaikyoku3 ... Handtalk, published in 1999. > > > > These are not latest version except Haruka. > > All game records are here. > > http://www.yss-aya.com/gnugo_vs_result.zip > > > > Average expended hours. > > KCC 17m51s Gnugo 3m14s, Opteron248(2.2GHz) > > Haruka 11m53s Gnugo 4m28s, Opteron248(2.2GHz) + AthlonXP 2100+(1.73GHz) > > Go4++ 4m59s Gnugo 2m18s, Opteron248(2.2GHz) > > Handtalk 2m42s Gnugo 5m22s, AthlonXP 2100+(1.73GHz) > > > > > > Appendix. > > > > GnuGo 3.5.4 (January, 2004 version) test result. Level is default. > > > > gnugo wins losses winning rate average score > > ValueIgo3 (KCC Igo ) 4 26 0.13 -36.6 points > > TuyoiIgo4 (Go4++ ) 11 19 0.37 -6.5 points > > ShudanTaikyoku3 (Handtalk ) 12 18 0.40 -3.8 points > > AI Igo2004 (ManyFaces) 18 12 0.60 +11.7 points > > > > ValueIgo3 ... KCC Igo, published in 2003. same GinseiIgo2PW(2001?) > > AI Igo2004 ... ManyFaces, published in 2003. engine is 2003? > > ------------------------------------------- > > > > Regards, > > Hiroshi Yamashita > > > > _______________________________________________ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ _______________________________________________ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
