Le lundi 23 octobre 2006 16:06, Don Dailey a écrit : > I don't want to beat this one to death - but a side effect I noticed of > positional superko is that having a move available can make the > difference between the life or death of a group on the other side of the > board - not connected in any logical way except that they happen to be > on the same board!
This is just a ko effect (no need to be super-). > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 09:41 -0400, Don Dailey wrote: > > When someone mentioned a position where a pass-alive group should be > > sacrificed - I wondered if it was also due to PSK issues. > > This can also happen with normal rules, if one need a ko threat and the only possible move is to fill one eye. Nothing specific to superko. /Alain > > It's these kinds of situations that make me view it as a slightly > different game that the pure game of GO. I know this is a matter of > opinion, but I feel that it breaks the elegance of the game just a tiny > little bit. There is a sense, at least in my mind, that GO played with > positional superko is a "variant" of the game. > > On the wonderful Tromp/Taylor site where the rules are described, I > feel that there was undo emphasis on being able to concisely state the > rules in English. One gets the impression that someone must have said, > "hey, we can state the rules with a few less words if we embrace > positional superko." I feel that took slight priority over the actual > elegance of the rules. Of course what is "elegant" cannot be > precisely defined and is a subjective matter. > > Because either variation is valid - it must be considered a matter of > opinion. I guess I prefer the version that leads to the most > consistent and predictable behavior. > > However, I really don't want to come across as bashing Tromp/Taylor > rules which includes PSK because if it wasn't for my discovery of these > rules, I probably wouldn't be doing computer GO today. > > - Don > > > > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 09:41 -0400, Don Dailey wrote: > > When someone mentioned a position where a pass-alive group should be > > sacrificed - I wondered if it was also due to PSK issues. > > > > I want to clarify something I said about PSK. I don't think the rule is > > "wrong" in any sense - after all you can make up any rules you want as > > long as they are internally consistent. I just believe it's a rather > > arbitrary rule which has been accepted primarily because it rarely turns > > out to make a difference in most situations. > > > > For instance, I could add a rule to chess which says "it's illegal to > > move a bishop to g2 on the 8th move." It would be a rather silly and > > arbitrary rule and wouldn't be consistent with the spirit of the game, > > and it would introduce a small bias against white for no good reason - > > but it would be a valid rule and the game could still be played > > reasonably. However it would be an ugly wart on the game. (Chess has > > a lot of funny rules in it anyway which have been added over the years > > to improve the game.) > > > > - Don > > > > > > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 11:56 +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote: > > > On 10/23/06, Tom Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > At 01:54 23/10/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >There was a posting on this list with an example of a (contrived?) > > > > >situation where sacrificing a pass-alive group is appropriate, in > > > order to > > > > >win a ko that is more valuable. Is even #1 "100% admissible"? > > > > > > > > > >Weston > > > > > > > > > > > > I must have missed this, and find it surprising. Can anyone > > > remember the > > > > example? > > > > > > > > > > I probably posted that; it is a superko anomaly. > > > > > > > > > . O O # # # O O . > > > O . O # . # O O # > > > O O # . # O O # . > > > # # # # # O O # # > > > O O O O # # O O . > > > . . O # # # # O O > > > O O # # O O O # O > > > O . O # O . O # # > > > O . O # O O . # . > > > > > > 9x9 board, superko, area scoring, 6 komi for White > > > It does not matter who plays first. > > > > > > > > > Assuming that the players agree that white's upper left group is dead > > > the position can be scored as it stands (jigo). > > > > > > Solution at http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/~vanderwerf/pubdown/stelling3.sgf > > > > > > Erik > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > computer-go mailing list > > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > _______________________________________________ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
