Michael Ash said:
I disagree with your assessment that there's nothing in ObjC that isn't done better in Java
If you read my message again, I think you'll see that I didn't go as far as to say that, or even to suggest it. In fact, I explicitly mentioned features of Obj-C that are useful, and non-existing in Java.
The fact is that ObjC's C nature is an enormous advantage, not a disadvantage as you paint it.
Once again, I think you undeservedly interpreted my words in an extreme way. I didn't paint Obj-C's C nature as being intrinsically a disadvantage. I merely voiced my opinion that notions such as header files, pointers, and manual memory management are things of the past. Having said that, I *do* think that exposing pointers and requiring programmers to manually manage memory *are* major disadvantages these days, when applications are bigger and more intricate than ever. How many hours of debugging time have been spent tracking memory problems due to mismanaged pointers?
...the C integration brings enormous foibles. But that same C integration also brings enormous advantages.
As with anything, it always boils down to a trade-off. Integrating Cocoa with <substitute your favorite language here> would have its own trade-offs as well.
You can directly call any C-based library on the system, which is essentially all of them. You can drop in any portable C or C++ code you happen to have, which is often a lot.
The existence of a large library base is also true of Java. Since every copy of OS X comes with Java built-in, one has access to a large number of well-tested libraries. Case in point: dealing with regular expressions (a recent hot topic in this list).
I don't mean to make a case explicitly for Java (or to make a case at all - I'm just voicing an opinion, not making a request for Apple to change anything!). The bigger point I was trying to make is that, as with any language, there are design choices in C that years of practice have shown to have been poor choices. Unfortunately for us, we're stuck with them because Obj-C sits on top of C.
All I was trying to convey with my previous message is the suspicion that Apple would choose a different native language for Cocoa if they were to wipe the slate clean and redesign Cocoa from scratch, knowing what we all know today. I say that because of the OO additions (and garbage collection in Obj-C 2.0), because there really isn't anything in C that is essential for Cocoa to work, and because C brings with it features that are either pretty much useless (such as header files) or annoying to deal with (such as include cycles) or downright dangerous (pointers and manual memory management).
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