Great analysis of the forces on the various stays Chuck. When I ordered my C&C I liked the idea of so many ways to adjust my mast feeling it would be 'fast'. In practice not so much--getting a 155 around the baby stay chewed up the sail and was slow--not to mention temporarily removing the baby stay when going downwind with a kite.
Although my mast is 'bendy'--definitely not an aluminum telephone pole, when my sailmaker(who in a former life crewed on an Americas Cup boat ) suggested that with spreaders that are perpendicular to the centerline (not swept aft) I could remove it, I agreed and took it off. Since my mast remains 'bendy', I did not remove the check stays which I rely on, with the adjustable back stay, to stabilize the mast fore and aft against 'pumping' in that plane. I am not an expert, naval architect, etc. and I think Rob Ball designed very fast boats, including the 37/40 and it's down-sized cousin, the 36 XR/XL/+ series of the early 90s. However, I also think that the baby stay and check stays may have been kept on the 36 XL (and maybe the 36+) as a marketing tool to entice novices like myself to believe that with all those stays, the boat should be faster than it's similarly sized racer/cruiser competitors of the time such as the Sabre 36-2 and others. In fact it probably is faster than those boats-- mine certainly is even without the baby stay. In any case, for the way and where I use my boat, any speed increase provided by the baby stay, even with a main designed for using a baby stay, is relatively marginal compared to the hassle of using it. My that's my story and I'm sticking to it--FWIW!! Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 1995 C&C 36XL/kcb Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 1, 2017, at 5:13 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: > > I'll bite since I have owned a 34R now for 15 years with runners and > checkstays. They are a PITA. So is a Baby Stay and that's why you won't find > them on modern designs. Baby Stays went out of vogue in the 80's with most > designers except C&C who kept them longer than anyone else. To be honest, I > bought my boat because it had runners and checkstays and I wanted to learn > all I could about making a sailboat go fast. I don't regret it. > > Runners and Checkstays make a difference but I wouldn't add them to an > existing design. They complicate the mast with so many anchor points and the > deck too, requiring another set of winches or heavy duty purchases. Research > has shown me that the forces on the runner block and deck anchor point are > close to the breaking strength of the backstay. This requires large expensive > blocks and beefy anchor points on deck w heavy backing plates to spread the > loads properly. > > Harken has some great spreadsheets on this but if memory serves, my "end of > boom" mainsheet load is around 600# max. I have a 5:1 course with a 20:1 fine > tune. The halyards are 1500# max. The genoa sheet is about the same1500 to > 2000#. The #3 jib sheet in 40 knots of wind is 3000# plus. While the runner > is closer to 10000#. > > BTW, the highest load for running gear for a typical sloop is the #3 jib > sheet in high winds. The highest load for a sailboat with a bowsprit will be > the bobstay, which is many times higher than the backstay. It's all physics. > >> On November 1, 2017 at 3:34 PM jacob fuerst via CnC-List >> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >> Furthering the baby stay thread, has anyone considered replacing the baby >> stay with check stays? Still controls the mast pump, more versatile, >> adjustable from the cockpit, and it gets the baby stay out of they way. I >> could be way off base here. Thoughts? >> >> Jacob Fuerst >> 303-520-4669 >> Ventura, CA >> '78 C&C 36 >> _______________________________________________ >> >> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again. >> October will be our fund raising month. Please consider sending a small >> contribution to help keep this list running. Use PayPal to send contribution >> -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> All contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > _______________________________________________ > > The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again. > October will be our fund raising month. Please consider sending a small > contribution to help keep this list running. Use PayPal to send contribution > -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > All contributions are greatly appreciated! _______________________________________________ The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again. October will be our fund raising month. Please consider sending a small contribution to help keep this list running. Use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All contributions are greatly appreciated!
