Bob (and other LF 38 folks), As I don’t have immediate access to Edson’s steering parts data base, can you tell me if the Landfall 38 uses a radial drive wheel (full circle) or quadrant (like a slice of pizza) shaped rudder to cable attachment? Two somewhat different animals that basically do the same thing, however, Edson’s quadrants are bronze while the radial drive wheels are aluminum. In autopilot tiller arm installations that are “challenging” due to available space, there are a few nifty methods of reinforcing a quadrant (the bronze thing) using 2 transverse pieces of ¼”x 1” wide stainless that would set in the gap inside the triangular opening in the quadrant, one above and one below the bronze webbing that keeps the quadrant from twisting. The steel pieces would bolt to that webbing. The linear drive ram would attach to that piece of steel providing a contact point at around 8” or so from the rudder post as per Raymarine’s instructions.
Radial drives are harder to properly re-inforce at a single contact point, partially due to the thin metal and also because the radial is dished and won’t be at 90 degrees to the angle of the rudderpost (and as such with the throw of the ram). They also have reinforcing ribs designed to bear the loads at the circumference. However, if a single point attachment on a radial drive is the LAST RESORT, you could cut two 2” “donuts” from aluminum that would sit above and below the radial (taking care to not foul the take up eyes and cables), and either weld the donuts in place (preferable) or bond them using epoxy to the radial prior to drilling the radial for the ram mounting bolt. In this manner, you’re spreading the load of the attachment pin where it passes through the radial, plus you are giving the radial a bit of lateral structure when the ram is fixed to a single post that sits up from its surface. The reason most tiller arm installations are best done with a tiller arm with a hollow channel that accepts the rose joint (ball joint) end of the ram INSIDE the tiller arm is to support the forces placed on the arm by a structure both above and below the ram. If torque is applied to an pin (or bolt) that sits 90 degrees from a horizontal platform (radial or otherwise), the entire load is being borne by the single attachment point below the joint. Perhaps the structure you’ve built to support the ram is sufficiently rigid and in line with your “quadrant” to prevent any twisting motion in a seaway, but I’ve seen plenty of bent or broken tiller arm pins (and even a few twisted tiller arms), where there was so much force applied by the ram to a single po.int attachment that the system failed or even worse, jammed. If enough force is applied, a bronze tiller arm (or quadrant) will initially bend and then tear. An aluminum radial drive will simply fracture and break. Neither is ideal but a broken radial drive wheel could render the boat unsteerable or at the very least, send you scrambling for the emergency tiller. And remember, this wouldn’t happen when the conditions are nice and smooth with 2’ seas and a mild breeze. It would happen when the winds were blowing 30+ and you’re getting green water over the foredeck… As much as I dislike wheel pilots, even if my boat was larger than the recommended size for the pilot, it would be safer to use a wheel pilot and have it disengage when the steering loads became too great than to simply bolt the ram to a radial drive wheel and risk the drive wheel cracking when the loads became more severe. At Edson, I never liked using the words “steering” and “failure” in the same sentence… Chuck Gilchrest S/V Half Magic 1983 LF 35 Padanaram, MA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Persuasi on37 via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 12:19 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Persuasion37 <persuasio...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Installing linear autohelm on LF38 Make that 2 data points. That is how mine is attached. I think it was installed in ‘98. Two trips to the Bahamas (one PO) no issues with quadrant. I would be curious how it would be installed otherwise. Miketi S/V Persuasion C&C 37 Keel/CB Long Sault From: <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Robert Boyer via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 12:12 PM To: <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: <mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com> Robert Boyer Subject: Re: Stus-List Installing linear autohelm on LF38 Mine is attached to the quadrant and it has been working fine for about 10 years now. I realize that is only one data point. The attachment point can only see the load that is resisted by the rudder, which at most times is small. Bob Boyer s/v Rainy Days C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230) Annapolis, MD (presently in Baltimore) blog: <http://dainyrays.blogspot.com> dainyrays.blogspot.com email: <mailto:dainyr...@icloud.com> dainyr...@icloud.com On May 31, 2016, at 9:59 AM, David via CnC-List < <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: It is my understanding that attaching a ram directly to a quadrant is not recommended by Edson etc. Quadrants are not engineered for those point loads. Chuck? David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) _____ Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 20:36:36 -0500 To: <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Installing linear autohelm on LF38 From: <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com CC: <mailto:f...@postaudio.net> f...@postaudio.net Jason — there is absolutely no room for a tiller arm on the LF38; you need to attach the ram directly to the quadrant, at the proper distance from the center of the rudder post for the drive you got. One option is to orient the ram forward to aft, on the port side of the rudder post (access via the port quarter berth access hatch). Otherwise, about your only other option is to have the ram oriented athwartship, forward of the rudder post, with the access through the cockpit locker. There are no easy steering system jobs on the LF38. — Fred Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI On May 29, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Jason & Amanda Ward via CnC-List < <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Good Day Everyone. Now that the sailing season is upon us life is good again. Life would be even better if I was able to use my autohelm. I have purchased an Raymarine EV200 linear drive unit and am trying to figure out how to install it below deck. As all C&C owners know there is very little room at the best of times and it appears that when they made the LF38, autohelm was never even a consideration. I was wondering if there are any other LF owners out there that have successfully installed a linear below deck drive that would be willing to pass on their installation process. Photos would also be appreciated. Life is good on a boat, even when you are fixing her. Good sailing and hope to talk soon. Jason Starship LF38 Lake Winnipeg, Manitoba _______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> www.avast.com _______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated! _____ _______________________________________________ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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