Mike, Sea Hawk came with lazy jacks and were subject to most of the problems you noted. Sail flopping on the deck, sail cover a pain, generally not working, etc.
When designing the new sail pack from Quantum, Clark Mckinney advised that the original jacks did not extend up high enough (short of even the first of three spreaders) and that they were not placed wide enough (on the mast instead of about a foot out on each spreader). The problems you mentioned have not presented themselves with the new jacks/sail pack. I also inquired about the added windage from the sail pack and how that would affect performance. He stated that no one had ever complained about decreased performance though also noted that most sail packs are going on cruising boats and cruisers are less likely to recognize or care about decreased performance. I can say that having been brought up in sailing as a racer and owning a boat that is PHRF 75, and having raced that boat, I would not complain. Any cons are far far outweighed by the pros. I also inquired about the ease of flaking the sail with the sail pack and Clark advised that since the sail was hidden inside the pack there was no need to "make it look neat". He argued that the regular folding of the sail in the same place over and over (as in a neatly flaked sail) was more likely to cause wear spots at the folds. His advice was to basically allow it to tumble into the pack and then pull the leach edge as necessary to straighten and flatten the sail into pack. The sail stows quickly and rarely folds in the same place twice. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Dec 10, 2015 9:38 AM, "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Marek > > > > Nut Case our J27 also came with Lazy Jacks. The very first thing I did > was cut them off the mast before ever launching the boat for the first > time. I do not like the look of them nor how they mess up the sail cover. > > > > Persistence our Frers 33 was in the water when we purchased it. We used > the Lazy Jacks the entire summer. They often caught the batten pocket ends > when hoisting the sail, were annoying when taking the main halyard forward > to headboard of sail from its normal spot on end of boom (had to ensure not > outside of any lazy jacks) and were simply in the way when the sail was > hoisted. Worst of all they seemed to offer zero benefit when dropping the > main. It spilled off the boom anyway. So this past Spring I removed them > prior to stepping the mast. This time however I did not cut them off as > they were attached with shackles so I can reuse if desired. > > > > Persistence is our Winnebago. It is however a Winnebago that is very easy > to sail to its potential (moreso than the J27, etc …). We tend to race the > boat in the Spring and the Fall and race on the C&C 115 Koobalibra during > the regular season. We also like to take advantage of the creature > comforts of our sailing Winnebago when not racing. > > > > Persistence Quantum main is I believe Carbon/Vectran with taffeta on both > sides. It has a very nice sail shape but is super stiff and awful to > flake. It really did not work well with the lazy jacks. Our older UK Tape > Drive Kevlar main is likely 10-12 years old. It has decent shape but is > starting to show the brittleness of an older Kevlar sail. However it > flakes quite easily. I suspect it would work better with lazy jacks than > the Quantum main. Moreso if we actually had them tensioned properly and > learned how to use them. > > > > During the past summer we had the boat in the Bras D’ors Lakes in Cape > Breton, NS. We spent one week racing the boat in Baddeck Reggata Week (6 > day event) against many boats that included C&C 33-2 and another Frers 33. > For this we had the new (2013) quantum main. For the 180 mile deliveries > and while cruising in the Lakes we used the UK Tape Drive main and our 100% > roller furler Quantum Pentex genoa (also taffeta both sides) and had our > dodger and bimini in place. With the dodger up flaking the main was even > more of a chore than normal since it is the way big time. For this reason > when delivering or goofing around we usually did not bother with the main > (seems silly). In the Bras Dors Lakes it is quite deep but the channels > into some anchorages can be shallow and narrow. Not a good time to have > one of two total crew fooling around trying to lash a mainsail. > > > > Following Regatta week we did a Wednesday race of the frers 33 Equinox > which still had its Stack Pack main on from its delivery back from Cape > Breton. I was impressed with how little the ugly zippers and canvas on the > sail actually affected its performance and with how easy it was to deploy > and stow. For these reasons I have tried to think how I could use the lazy > jacks for cruising and quickly and easily move them to the mast when > racing. The issue then being to keep them out of the way of the other > control lines … > > > > Hope this explains it. > > > > Mike > > Persistence > > Ferrs 33 built by Winnebago > > > > *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek > Dziedzic via CnC-List > *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:06 AM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* Marek Dziedzic > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack? > > > > Mike, > > > > interesting that you removed the lazy jacks. I installed them on my boat. > I had them on my previous C&C 24 and I loved them. The new(er) boat came > without them and I installed them after one season. I always sail short- or > singlehanded and the lazy jacks help a lot when dropping the main. In the > worst case, I can tighten the lines controlling the jacks and drop the sail > without flaking, tying it up etc. I can get to the dock that way and tidy > it it up afterwards. > > > > I wonder what was the pain factor. There might be a little chafe on the > sail, but I used mine for 7 years (and the PO at least 3-4 years before > that) and there were no signs of problems. > > > > Marek > > 1994 C270 “Legato” > > Ottawa, ON > > > > *From:* Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2015 8:53 AM > > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > *Cc:* Hoyt, Mike <mike.h...@impgroup.com> > > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack? > > > > I was looking at the Doyle Stack Pack information on their web site. It > indicates that an existing sail can be converted to a stack pack sail. > > > > Persistence came with lazy jacks (since removed but still available for > reinstallation). Also have an older UK Tape Drive main as well as an almost > new Quantum main. This past season we used the older main for deliveries, > everyday sailing and Wednesday racing and kept the new main for regattas > etc … Had noted a friend with aFrers 33 has a Doyle Stack Pack for > deliveries and casual sailing and it has good enough sail shape for limited > racing as well. Have been considering a stack pack main at some time for > cruising. > > > > Has anyone here converted an existing sail to a stack pack? Any thoughts > on feasibility of converting an older UK Tape Drive to stack pack? Any > ideas on cost and if at the end of life for that sail the stack pack > components can be used on another sail? > > > > I know that the previous season we found the lazy jacks a pain that were > always in the way and that last season with just two of us flaking the main > was a major PITA esp when entering a narrow channel or looking to anchor. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Mike > > Persistence > > 1987 Frers 33 > > Halifax, NS > > > > Formerly > > Nut Case 1987 J27 > > Full Tilt 2 1979 Hinterhoeller Niagara 26 > > Monkey Bear 1974 Paceship P23 > > Full Tilt 1970s McVay Minuette > > Blue Horizon No. 1 1981 C&C 36 (family boat) > > High Hopes 1979 Spirit 28 (family boat) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the > bottom of page at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > >
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