OK - This is getting silly. Do you really believe the tiny GPS chip and antenna in a cell phone or Ipad is going to outperform a dedicated handheld GPS and pick up signals where the handheld GPS will not without some sort of assistance. For a navigation message to travel from the satellite to the receiver, they must be sent on a carrier frequency. In the original GPS design, two frequencies were utilized; one at 1575.42 MHz(10.23 MHz × 154) called L1; and a second at 1227.60 MHz (10.23 MHz × 120), called L2. The satellite output is about 25 watts. These signals are quite weak when they reach earth and will not penetrate the metal roof on your house or your car and may be attenuated by the fiberglass roof on your boat to the point where they may not be readable by an Iphone or Ipad. That's why your handheld GPS will not work in your basement. The only reason the Ipad or Iphone will work is that it is assisted. Even it you don't have a cellular connection you probably have wifi in your house that is being used for the assist. A typical A-GPS-enabled receiver will use a data connection (Internet, cellular or other) to contact the assistance server for aGPS information. If it also has functioning autonomous GPS, it may use standalone GPS which does not depend on the wifi or cellular network but then must depend entirely on the GPS signal from the satellite and therefore will not work if that signal is not strong enough. Some A-GPS devices do not have the option of falling back to standalone or autonomous GPS. Many mobile phones combine A-GPS and other location services including Wi-Fi Positioning System and cell and sometimes a hybrid positioning system. Accurate location requires a fix on at least 3 satellites, and these signals do not penetrate buildings (even the roof of a car can attenuate the GPS signal to where it is not useful). So, if you are not in view of 3 satellites, A-GPS can estimate your location based on 2 satellites plus cell tower data (less accurate). If you aren't in view of at least 2 satellites, the iPhone uses internet WiFi or cell-tower triangulation, which is not very accurate. Jerry
-----Original Message----- From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net> Sent: Sat, Oct 3, 2015 3:38 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List IPad Question... I have an IPad 3 which was a gift. It has cellular capability (so it has a built in GPS), but has never been connected to cellular service. The GPS function operates perfectly below decks and everywhere else. I have never had a problem receiving GPS data, even inside my house which has a metal roof. I can’t say the same for the handheld GPSs (multiple) that I carry on the boat as backups for the ditch bag. I have SKIPPER on the IPad for a navigation app. (Selected that one because of a desire for Bermuda charts when I was loading the IPad, and Bermuda region is included as part of North America so there was no cost.) Skipper uses NOAA charts, and the app checks for NOAA updates to the charts that have been downloaded to the tablet each time the app is turned on while connected to WiFi. On the last two deliveries I made, I found that my charts were more up to date than the charts on the boat’s chartplotter. Plus I run the Active Captain Companion on the IPad, which gives warnings about hazards to navigation that are within a specified angle and distance from the boat’s heading. One of the Raymarine plotters on a boat offered this feature, but the charts were out of date. The tablet was more accurate. If you are getting your AIS information off the net, you should be aware of a couple of things: The information is not current, not all AIS information is included, and the AIS repeaters on the Internet have the capability of being hacked. I seem to recall that a number of manufacturers are making instruments and radios that can be connected to tablets and phones by using Bluetooth. Why not just use the Bluetooth connection instead of building a WiFi network on the boat? My IPad was a gift, so it cost me nothing. I agree with Dennis. A WATERPROOF and shock resistant Galaxy tablet is a bit more than $250, but still less than half the cost of an IPad. Plus the software is generally less expensive. I have more invested in the Otter Box and LifePruf cases for my IPad than a galaxy tablet would have cost me. But the discussion started with David’s question about using an old IPad for a plotter. If the IPad had cellular capability (so it has a GPS) go for it. You will spend something up to $50 (and maybe less) on chart plotter software and charts, and most of the other navigation apps you will want like Active Captain and Drag Queen are free. If no built in GPS, put your music on the IPad and buy a Galaxy tablet with cellular capability. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jerome Tauber via CnC-List Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 11:27 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Jerome Tauber <jrtau...@aol.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List IPad Question... GPS built into phones and pads is limited and depends on cellular service being available. Moreover, reception below decks is poor to non-existent. Also, with wifi you can transmit AIS and any other NMEA info such as wind speed, depth, and even radar. It's a different ballgame entirely. You can even receive on multiple Pads and from anywhere on the boat. Your Ipad or Android becomes a complete navigation system using an app such as INavx and is available anywhere on the boat. Of course, you must have nmea sensors to plug into the wifi router. Jerry J&J -----Original Message----- From: Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 2, 2015 11:17 am Subject: Re: Stus-List IPad Question... or you can buy a 10" Samsung Galaxy Tab with GPS for $250. Add Navionics for $10. Poof! Chartplotter. Dennis C. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Jerome Tauber via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: I have been looking into this and there is an excellent solution. You can plug your onboard GPS into a wifi transmitter and receive the signal anywhere on your boat on your Ipad. This is compatible with INavx and other software. You can also transmit AIS if you have an AIS receiver and receive it on the Ipad (or any Android device) through INavx or other software. This is the future of onboard navigation. Here are some transmitters though there are many others. Jerry - J&J Digital Yacht NavLink NMEA 200 Wireless Data Server by Digital Yacht List Price: $833.92 Price: $495.77 You Save: $338.15 (41%) Ships from and sold by OJ Commerce. Digital Yacht NMEA to Wireless Wi-Fi Adapter - 4800 Baud by Digital Yacht List Price: $458.92 Price: $280.37 You Save: $178.55 (39%) Ships from and sold by OJ Commerce. 1 - Digital Yacht iNAVConnect Wireless Wi-Fi Router by Digital Yacht Price: $232.67 Ships from and sold by TheFactoryDepot. -----Original Message----- From: David via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: CNC CNC <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: David <davidrisc...@msn.com> Sent: Fri, Oct 2, 2015 10:37 am Subject: Stus-List IPad Question... OK...so I have this IPad I never use. I'm thinking good for chartplotting software for the 2X (maybe) a year that I need a chartplotter. Needs a GPS. I shop and see "Bad Elf"s" for $150+. Huh? I bought a GPS dongle for my laptop for $20. Is this more of Apples proprietary product BS? (sorry Apple users...I am not a big fan of Apple) Are there other solutions this non-tech, non-Apple guy could use? Thank in advance! David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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