156 seems a bit more correct From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Nylander via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 1:35 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Gary Nylander Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!
What do your folks rate a Star? We only have one Wednesday night race where the fleets are combined, so usually they race one design - windward/leeward - which is what they like. But on that single race, our guys rate them at 162, which seems to be somewhat correct. And, we race in light wind and flat water, which favors them. The rest of the combined fleet ranges from a J-105 at 87 to a Cal 2-27 at 213. Gary St. Michaels MD ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Brown via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Michael Brown<mailto:m...@tkg.ca> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! Hi Joel and Mike. I won't disagree with any of your points, though I was commenting on what I think is a different topic. Aside from planning, surfing or momentarily being overpowered in a gust some boats get to a much higher percentage of hull speed in moderate winds. I think everyone understands hull speed, and that it can be a soft limit, but to me a second factor is also in play. The ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. I think most of it is from below the waterline drag, which also compounds with the loss of apparent wind. The widest difference I see is when I am racing smaller boats that are from dry sail. A common feature is a very slippery clean and polished hull, no thru-hulls, and no prop or shaft in the water. I have depth + knotmeter, and five water thru-hulls. Also, the 30-1 prop shaft and cutlass are not on the center line, and in fact are angled both down and to port. So I muse over the observation that in calmer water with a moderate breeze that the smaller day sailors are easily getting to or exceeding hull speed, maybe because they have so little drag. In my case getting to 5.4 kts is hard, again a guess but I think drag has got to be the factor. PHRF factors in displacement / water line and sail area to displacement, neither of which is my "ease" factor. I see it on my Tuesday night spinnaker race, where my fleet consists of J/22, J/24, J/80, I guess a J/70 now, Kirby 30 and a Star. Even without a spinnaker in a spinnaker fleet, and a 15' waterline, the Star easily takes everyone level. By PHRF it is also the slowest boat. It just has a great "ease" factor. Michael Brown Windburn C&C 30-1 I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be factored in that covers the "ease" at which a boat can exceed hull speed. Yes, it should!!! Planing boats get a huge break when the wind blows! Joel Message: 11 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:55:03 +0000 From: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com<mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> Subject: Stus-List hull speed, planing, PHRF, etc ... Message-ID: <169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0e1...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com<mailto:169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0e1...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Michael Typically sport boats have their planning capabilities accounted for in their PHRF numbers. This is one reason why limiting a course to strictly W/L is not always desirable as it takes away a major component of some boats speed by removing any reaching legs? that is a discussion for another time though. A Viking 22 is not a sport boat but is light and will probably surf quite well in a wind. By contrast they would be pounded mercilessly going to wind in those same conditions. Our first ever race on our former J27 was a 52 mile port to port distance race with winds well over 20 knots TWS coming over port quarter (likely much more). We were regularly exceeding 12 knots over the water on the ST60 Speed instrument as we surfed down waves. We would then drop off to 7 knots as we stopped surfing each time. We hit a high of 13.9 knots that day. (which we never ever saw again while racing in 7 years). During the same race the boat ahead of us was a Peterson 37. They never came close to 13 knots but they also never dropped below 9. The boat immediately behind was a C&C 34 ? same thing as the Peterson. I suspect your 30 would also not slow down as much after the surf finishes as the lighter 22 but would have a pretty nice average boat speed during the day. I should note that after we dropped the spin and went with just a main for a while we continued to exceed 12 and drop down to 7s. We averaged 8 knots over our course that race. It was a wild and wet day. At the bar after the finish a friend in a Tanzer 22 was there less than an hour after we finished and he flew only white sails. Usually he is several hours behind. The only other time we hit high speeds on speedo was just after we abandoned a race due to excessive waves and wind and were reaching back to port under reefed main and 100% headsail. While I was attending to cooler duties we surfed down a wave and briefly hit 15.0 knots. Despite that it took our usual time to get back. As a proud papa of the boat I selected Max Speed both times and took photos at the dock. On the day we hit 15 after abandoning a C&C30-1 won the race. Mike Persistence Halifax ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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