Thanks Mark, I appreciate your concern for what happened to my son. Maybe I have not been fair to the profession as a whole but the anger of what happened to my son eats at me everyday...he was once very athletic, an excellent sailor, both of my sons started on the boat just after birth going along with us in car seats fastened securely below, then to harnesses and life jackets on deck and then to learning to steer and trim all before the age of 7 and then through junior sail programs and opti and laser racing so my youngest completed silver sail at 13, much like others have said, my boys grew up on a sailboat. Now there are no surgical intervention options for him because the neurosurgeons advise that the risks associated with surgery are too great...he can at least walk with much difficulty now but they can't guarantee he will be able to do that if they attempt surgery...and he can't sail with me and he can't ski or go camping or hiking and he can't do garden and lawn chores...relistically he can't do anything that he enjoyed doing before...basically he has to spend most of his life just lying down on addictive meds to dull the pain he suffers continuously...sometimes he can take short walks on even ground and even then sometimes he is struck and loses all control and falls down and shakes uncontrollably but can't get up...that can happen to him anywhere without warning...so I am sorry, I just can not speak well of your profession and I wish you would not advertise it on the sailing list...frankly I don't think the list is an appropriate place to advertise your personal business anyway and if you had not done that in the first place none of my comments would ever have happened.
-----Original Message----- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of M Bod Sent: April 10, 2014 9:10 AM To: C&C list Subject: Stus-List Off topic discussion - Was Re: Rebel Heart Dwight, I must admit that I took your first comment as a bad joke. Clearly that is not the case. First. Very sorry to hear about your son. Obviously I know nothing about his injuries so can't comment on how or what happened - but absolutely terrible end result none the less. I've never seen or heard something similar in my 20 yrs practicing. I hope his condition improves. Second. You are judging an entire profession by a single event. Every group has it bad apples. Chiropractic may have more than its fair share of charlatans, but that is something I have worked to improve over my career. I work hard to be better than what you describe and I am proud of record. Risks associated with typical treatments are quite low, and typically safer than medication options and far less risky than surgical intervention. In the end this is a list discussing sailing, C&C boats and maintenance. I have gleaned a lot of knowledge from this list, and also from your posts Dwight. I'm happy to continue in that vein. No need to burden the list with further comments on this topic. Mark On 10 Apr 2014 05:16, dwight <dwight...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yea Russ, well I got someone very close to me whose life has been changed forever by treatment from one of those guys so I cant accept the time out 3 broken vertebrae from an over aggressive chiropractor big pain everyday, no fix for his injuries, ugly pain meds just to survive, under 30 years old and once very athletic I would never trust a chiropractor to fix anything but I do know many people who keep going back for more thats the one certainty about treatment from a chiropractor, you will have to return for more you may feel more like me about that if it were your son whose life was ruined mine made his living as a high climber and now he is barely able to walk after just 1 treatment from a chiropractor to try to relax some back muscle pain so now he suffers constant high levels of pain every hour of everyday for the rest of his life for which all his doctors can do is prescribe higher and higher doses of addictive meds, like hydromorph and he gets very little money to live on and these lawsuits can take forever to get settled so Russ you go to the chiropractor 6 times a year for the rest of your life if you feel it does you good but please understand where I am coming from too you have been lucky with your treatments but many like my son have not, bone chips in his spine that can not as yet be removed surgically, 5th, 6th and 7th thoracic vertebrae compression fractures I dont feel one bit bad about the way I feel about that practice and there is x-ray and MRI evidence to support how his back got broken > > > > Not sailing related maybe but when any member on this list leaves personal credentials below their signature then they open themselves to more than comments about sailing, this guy, Mark Bodnar always leaves his personal credentials and I must admit that his credentials do not impress me and it may be inappropriate for him to advertise them on this list of friends in sailing. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Russ & Melody > Sent: April 10, 2014 1:36 AM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Rebel Heart - an ignorant woman blogs... > > > > Time out Dwight. > > Your doctor comment is inappropriate. On this list we are amongst friends regardless of our opinion. Please be civil. > In the spirit of full disclosure, I see a Doctor of Chiropractic Medicine about six times a year. I am very happy with the results after each visit. Furthermore, I see a "real" doctor very seldom... maybe three times in the past ten years. The results speak for themselves. > > On the subject of overbearing rules, I belive we are profoundly heading down the road where all activities will be regulated and our favourite activities will be deemed dangerous. > > I did sail offshore with a 6 year old boy and his mother. She had sailed once before in the kindergarten known as the Gulf Islands and the lad had never been on a sailboat. They joined me in Jamaica and got off at Hawaii via French Polynesia. The boat was a 32' Southern Cross named Dove. PO & builder sailed around the world with the wife & two daughters and their son was born in South Africa after repairs to a dismasting. Steven came across the Atlantic at the age of one. > > Free trade and sailor's rights, Russ > Sweet 35 mk-1 > > > At 05:18 PM 09/04/2014, you wrote: > > Are you really a doctor??? This does not sound like a real doctor talking governments try to make laws that society wants oh I see you are in chiropractic medicine, let me fix you now and please return every 2 weeks for the rest of your life for another fix > > > ________________________________ > > From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Mark Bodnar > Sent: April 9, 2014 2:23 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Rebel Heart - an ignorant woman blogs... > > > I agree wholeheartedly. > > Society, in our attempt to make idiot proof, is making our lives so full of rules and regulations that we hardly know what to do unless we are told. > > I read a short article in Discover magazine a while back - it talked about a small town in northern Europe (Sweden?) that decided to install their first traffic light. > A year later they had experienced a significant increase in the number of accidents at the intersection. > > In the resulting study they learned that with a light telling them what to do, people didn't put any thought into the process. If the light was green they just drove through the intersection -- if someone coming the other way accidentally entered the intersection then there was an accident. > > Take away the light and people would approach the intersection looking for any possible trouble - eyes open and brain engaged. They took out the traffic light and the number of accidents reverted back to normal levels. > > I feel we suffer the same problem in so many areas. I counted 13 street signs in the 500m leading up to my kids school a few months back --- I'm supposed to read all those and obey -- but at the same time I really should be watching the road looking for kids possibly crossing!!!! > On some levels driver distraction has become the biggest cause of accidents because we have made roads so smooth and consistent that people don't need to pay much attention - until something unexpected happens. > > Yes there are risks taking kids on that type of trip. I've never been offshore so I won't try to comment on the relative risks - but I do think that taking kids on such a trip is reasonably appropriate given some thought has gone into the planning etc. > > To quote a comedian - "You can't fix stupid" --- unfortunately our governments are trying to write laws for just that purpose. Laws that end up entangling people who are making reasonable decisions. > > Mark > > > --------------------- > > > > Dr. Mark > > Bodnar > > > > B.Sc., D.C., > > FCCOPR(C) > > > > Bedford > > Chiropractic > > > > --------------------- > > > > > > > > There is no cure for birth > > and death save to enjoy the > > interval. > > > > - George > > Santayana > > On 09/04/2014 1:50 PM, Stevan Plavsa wrote: > > I think this starts to get into a wider discussion. People like to talk about how survival of the fittest and evolution created all that we know, including us, and they will defend the teaching of evolution in the school system etc. Well, the warning labels, idiot proofing and regulation have essentially defeated evolution. So the laws of evolution no longer apply, is that what we want? Stupid people have lots of kids, what's that doing the gene pool? > > We live in an aquarium. > > People around here like to talk about how "driving isn't a right, it's a privilege". Well, judging by how terrible the drivers are around here I'de say it's a right (not that I agree with that). We've dumbed everything down to the point where people can't take responsibility for their own actions anymore. > > To me, it's their family, their decision. Personally though I think these people are smarter (evolutionarily "better") than most people I encounter on a daily basis. > > Steve > Suhana, C&C 32 > Toronto > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Jerome Tauber <jrtau...@aol.com> wrote: > This discussion needs some balance. If you do not recognize the inherent dangers of trans-oceanic cruising in a small (and in this case also old) boat then you are lacking in seamanship and navigation skills. To deny these risks is merely and expression of lack of knowledge and understanding of good seamanship. To expose a young child to these risks in my view demonstrates questionable judgment and an unreasonable risk to the life and safety of the child. The possibility of injury or illness without resort to medical facilities is in itself questionable. Two people as a crew under adverse sea conditions is limited at best and adding the need to watch and protect the childred during a storm makes it much worse. What if the child fell and suffered a serious injury? I have been offshore in storms and it requires total attention to the boat and crew safety. Let's a least be fair. This is not a one sided discussion. At a very minimum a sailor must recognize these risks and be willing to subject their young children to them without the consent of the children. Comparing to a car is not a good one. In NY young children must be strapped into an approved child seat in the back of the car. Doors must have child safety locks. Boats offshore are unregulated. I was a product safety attorney for many years and I have seen the cost of not recognizing and taking proper precautions when engaging in hazardous activities. > > Jerome Tauber, C&C 27 MKV > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stevan Plavsa <stevanpla...@gmail.com > > To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > Sent: Wed, Apr 9, 2014 11:07 am > Subject: Re: Stus-List Rebel Heart - an ignorant woman blogs... > You guys that grew up sailing are lucky, don't forget it. I started sailing at 30 and closing the gap on things that you simply learn by osmosis growing up around sailors is hard. (as is evident by my high post count to this list) > > Steve > Suhana, C&C 32 > Toronto > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Della Barba, Joe <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov > wrote: > Good for you! Theyll be telling their kids about it. > I can embarrass my son with this photo. > http://www.dellabarba.com/sailing/images/noah093x.JPG > > > Joe Della Barba > Coquina > From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G Street > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 10:44 AM > > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Rebel Heart - an ignorant woman blogs... > > I didnt start sailing young enough to have had that experience; but you can be darn sure my kids did! > > Fred Street -- Minneapolis > S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( > > On Apr 9, 2014, at 9:42 AM, Della Barba, Joe <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov > wrote: > > I still remember watching the east coast drop out of view astern with nothing but Atlantic Ocean ahead at age 12. It was a BIG thrill at that age J > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > This List is provided by > > the C&C Photo > > Album > > > > > > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > > > > > > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
