Wow. You guys have gone deep with the power consumption and recharging principles. You have open my eyes to a big project moving forward. Keep in mind my wife and I will not need much power. Bet you have heard that before from people starting out. HAHAh. Well wet me see what it looks like.
1) AM/FM Radio *4 hr a week* 2) ST4000 AUTO helm *8 hrs a day* 3) Garmin echo50s (GPS) *8 hrs a day* 4) Bow and stern running lights *8 hrs a week* 5) Spreader lights *Almost never* 6) Mast head anchor light *(12 hours a day) LED* 7) Cabin lights *(8 hours a day) LED* 8) VHF Radio “Hand Held” *8 hrs a day* 9) VHF fixed mount *8 hrs a day scan mode weather alert* 10) Ray marine gauge “ Depth” *8 hrs a day* 11) Ray marine gauge “Wind” *8 hrs a day* 12 Ray marine gauges 13) IPOD for movies *2 hrs a day* 14) Cell phones 2 “1 droid” “1 I phone” We have no refrigerator We have no t/v at this time Toilet is a manual In doing my research hoping to find a Energy Budget work sheet in excel format. This way I could plug in the cost of each of my power using pieces and see what it comes up with. On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Rich Knowles <r...@sailpower.ca> wrote: > And to increase the presumptuous factor: > > The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small > boat engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single > voltage output regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined > for use in small motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that > application. For our use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick > notes, radar and refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods > between charges, those alternators are bordering on inadequate, and > certainly not as efficient and appropriate as higher power units with multi > stage regulators. > > For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical > system should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. > This will involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can > be fitted, taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of > pocket book into account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works > well. There are a number of external regulators available that should be > considered for installation as part of the new system. A new alternator > with a multi-step regulator will considerably reduce the engine run time > needed to replenish the batteries. Other devices such as wind generators > and solar panels are important for long range travels as well to further > reduce the dependency on the engine. > > For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of > batteries to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the > fact that a 50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly > linear rate which will drop significantly as the state of charge nears > 100%. Trying to achieve the last 20% can take a long time compared to the > first 30%. This will vary depending on battery type and condition, so my > 30% figure is somewhat arbitrary, but fairly realistic. > > A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to > sustain loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices > operating while the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to > replenish the batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use > should be chosen. There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. > > I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input > from the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should > be avoided. > > As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is > complex. > > It's snowing again. Grrrr! > > Rich Knowles > INDIGO - LF38 > Halifax, NS > > > On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, "Rick Brass" <rickbr...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Curtis; > > > > At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the > horse. > > > > If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where > you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries) > every day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on > board and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. > Radar? Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment > like radio or TV? Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a > microwave draw a shocking amount of power out of your batteries. > > > > Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure > out how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put > them. My average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I > plan to run refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended > periods. So my house bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 460 AH > capacity. That gives 230 usable AH (50% discharge) and should let me go for > 2 days between charges. In addition I have a group 29 marine starting > battery as a second bank, and a deep cycle group 24 under the v-berth to > power the head and the anchor windlass. > > > > The 400+ AH house bank dictates at least a 40amp, multi bank charger. I > have an older Xantrex 40+ wired to the house and starting bank. There is a > solar charger for the group 24 battery that is OK for now, but I plan to > install an ACR that will top up the charge on that battery when I’m hooked > to shore power or running the engine. > > > > To put 100 AH into my house bank by running the engine (with a 45 amp > alternator installed) will take at least 3 hours of run time – which is OK > when I’m traveling on the ICW but not acceptable when at anchor. SO I plan > to install a bank of solar panels over the Bimini, and maybe a wind > generator as well, to maintain the batteries at anchor. > > > > As you can see, the process starts with determining how much power you > will be using each day, and that will depend on what systems you have > installed for cruising. > > > > You said you had an “OEM” battery charger installed. Probably not really > OEM, but the question is: is it still working? If it is, spend your money > on the other systems you will be installing, and the additional batteries, > and worry about a new (probably more efficient) charger in 2017 or so. > > > > > > Rick Brass > > Washington, NC > > > > > > > > *From:* CnC-List > [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com<cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] > *On Behalf Of *Curtis > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 17, 2013 1:16 PM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations? > > > > I picked up the one noted above to maintain the battery's. In my first > post I was trying to explain I needed something to keep the batt's charged > while sailing ever couple of weeks. "For Now" In 2018 We hope to shove off > for some extended cruising. > > I will need to install a Good expensive on board fixed mount bank charger. > This is what I was hoping to get advice on. the Good one that will give me > a charge on all my batt's when I come in from off shore. > > Sorry for the confusion. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Evidently, we all misunderstood the question. The battery minder is > advertised to provide a "de-sufating" pulse charge to prevent loss of > capacity. This is fine and may or may not add value for your purpose. Had > any of us realized that you simply wanted to keep the batteries from self > discharging during winter storage you would have received drastically > different answers. > > For ultra cheap $20 you can find 2amp smart chargers that cycle to prevent > over charging. If conditioning or de-sufating was the goal then I would > have possibly recommended a higher power portable unit with a conditioning > feature. 10-40amps, 3 stage, and conditioning mode, $50-100. Stanley, > Schumacher, Vector all have similar units available at the big box, auto, > and boat stores. I'm not convinced that the battery minder has a more > effective de-sulfating feature than any of the others. > > Many people prefer to occasionally visit the boat to top up the > batteries. This eliminates the risks of overcharge, electical fire, and > galvanic corrosion. > > What type of charger did you already have? What was wrong with using it? > > Josh Muckley > > On Dec 17, 2013 10:29 AM, "Curtis" <cpt.b...@gmail.com> wrote: > *Battery Tender Plus 12v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT-021-0128* > > > > Sorry I posted the wrong model. > > > > > > Wal-mart > > $66.48 > > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Bill Bina <billb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > Hopefully you can return it. You need a 12 volt charger, not an 8 volt > charger. You also need substantially more than 1.25 amps. This thing will > barely charge an 8 volt motorcycle battery. > > Bill Bina > > > > On 12/17/2013 9:47 AM, Curtis wrote: > > After much study and review I purchased a portable charger last night > > Battery Tender Plus 8v 1.25 Amp 3 Stage Smart Charger BT8v021-0152 > This is a very popular 8 volt unit for battery storage. The Battery > Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp battery charger designed to fully charge a > battery and maintain it at proper storage voltage without the damaging > effects caused by trickle chargers. The E-Z quick disconnect harness > (1 of each ring ends and alligator clips included) allows you to leave > the charger wiring attached to the battery while operating the > vehicle. Battery Tender Plus will not overcharge or boil battery when > connected long term. > > I hope it will keep them topped off when I'm not there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > > > > > -- > “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline, > should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > > > > > -- > “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline, > should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > -- “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline, should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
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