Thanks to all!!! My shaft O.D. is so close to the tube I.D. that I don't think a bushing with walls thicker than 1/32" will fit. I have 2 grease nipples, so thanks for the advice on the Lubriplate, which I distinctly recall first hearing about at Boy Scouts on how to service your bike.
So I need to decide between UMHW or ACETAL/DELRIN.... Onward and outward... ALEX GIANNELIA Phone (416) 203-9858 Fax (416) 203-9843 Cell (416) 529-0070 email: a...@airsensing.com WEB: www.airsensing.com -----Original Message----- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com Sent: July 4, 2013 12:00 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 90, Issue 7 Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com You can reach the person managing the list at cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Rudder Tube (Indigo) 2. Re-installing Rudder Post etc CC 35-II (Marek Dziedzic) 3. Re: Rudder Tube (Michael Brown) 4. Re: Rudder Tube (John) 5. Re: Rudder Tube (Don Siddall) 6. Re: Music in cockpit (Bob Moriarty) 7. Re: Music in cockpit (Sam Salter) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 12:08:20 -0400 From: Indigo <ind...@thethomsons.us> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Tube Message-ID: <809f0b66-aa5f-4efa-8290-56380e838...@thethomsons.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My understanding at least for the 35mkiii is that the rudder post is suspended by the threaded "nut" that is on top of the cockpit sole. The delrin washer under that nut is what acts as the bearing and wears over time. The quadrant should be well clear of the top of the tube and not need a bearing under it. I have a delrin bearing on top of the rudder itself and between the rudder and hull and can only dummies that this is there in case wave action lifts the rudder Jonathan Indigo 35Iii Southport CT -- Jonathan Indigo C&C 35III SOUTHPORT CT On Jul 3, 2013, at 11:53, Alex Giannelia <a...@airsensing.com> wrote: > So, I crept under there one more time, and noticed the following: > > The rudder tube does go up a ways and is almost equal to the cockpit sole so > it looks to be nominally above the waterline. > Then there is just enough space to install the quadrant then up through the > cockpit sole. > On the tube, there are 2 what appear to be grease nipples, so why 2? > So, now, I am wondering if I need another washer, between the quadrant and > the tube, so the tube doesn't wear. > > ALEX GIANNELIA > > Phone (416) 203-9858 > Fax (416) 203-9843 > Cell (416) 529-0070 > > email: a...@airsensing.com > WEB: www.airsensing.com > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 12:20:23 -0400 From: "Marek Dziedzic" <dziedzi...@hotmail.com> To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Stus-List Re-installing Rudder Post etc CC 35-II Message-ID: <blu177-ds13f8bdb001421c7fd1b9b8ce...@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Alex, if you are planning to make it yourself, you can also consider a kit. This one may not apply directly, but, at least, you should be able to figure out what you need exactly. I know people who used this successfully here is the link: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=2791 . Marek (in Ottawa) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130703/3fa95a47/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:52:04 -0400 From: "Michael Brown" <m...@tkg.ca> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Tube Message-ID: <20130703165204.3dadb...@mail.tkg.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 18:58:50 -0400 > From: Alex Giannelia <a...@airsensing.com> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Stus-List Re-installing Rudder Post etc CC 35-II > Message-ID: > <1820d770a1e128438825b476052dffb0010bd4a15...@vmbx111.ihostexchange.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > So, > > I am at the stage where I want to re-install my rudder an am looking for a > bit of advice. > > The SS post goes up through an opening in the hull which is not > continuoulsly joined to the 2nd opening in the cockpit sole, so I was > wondering if greasing it will not only control friction, but also water > ingression, as the entry point is slightly above the waterline which changes > when under sail, where we sometimes bury the bottom of the transom. > > Also, what appear to have been nylon washers both at the cockpit and the > outside hull side are worn beyond, I want to replace with delrin (acetal). > > Any suggestions? > > ALEX GIANNELIA > > CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED > ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006 > Toronto Ontario > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130702/9a66b8d1/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 19:14:05 -0400 > From: Alex Giannelia <a...@airsensing.com> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Stus-List More on Rudder replacement 35-II > Message-ID: > <1820d770a1e128438825b476052dffb0010bd4a15...@vmbx111.ihostexchange.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I did some reading and it turns out, I should need a Delrin or Nyon bushing > on the hull side. Do these need to be custom made? > > ALEX GIANNELIA > > CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED > ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006 > Toronto Ontario > Hi Alex, I did a similar project on Windburn two years ago. The flat "plastic" pieces are thrust bearings. You have a choice of materials but you should confirm that it does not absorb any water. Some plastics do absorb small amounts. As mentioned from another post UHMW is a fine choice. From Wikipedia: "UHMWPE is odorless, tasteless, and nontoxic.[2] It is highly resistant to corrosive chemicals except oxidizing acids; has extremely low moisture absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant to abrasion than carbon steel. Its coefficient of friction is significantly lower than that of nylon and acetal, and is comparable to that of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon), but UHMWPE has better abrasion resistance than PTFE." I purchased a tube of UHMW then took it to a machine shop. They drilled out the center to match the shaft diameter and the outside to match my requirements. I had six pieces made in slightly different thicknesses so I could reduce the vertical play in the shaft during reassembly. I removed the top locking ring ( held by two grub screws - make sure to replace them and use grub screws with the same tip type such as cone point ). I also removed the top bearing and angle wedge so the locking ring and top bearing could be sent out for stripping and chrome plating. I have been using Mayfair Plating on Carlaw Ave, they know what they are doing and have fair prices. The original plating had worn down so the bronze and the thrust bearing were wearing out. The removal was difficult. The four bolts came through at an angle, then were bent to match the plane of the cockpit sole. Then tightened so much as to bend the bolts, had the extra length cut off and the area "finished" with some caulking that went rock hard. Could not even see the nuts to start with. When the rudder was out I borrowed a machinist's straight edge and confirmed the shaft was perfectly straight, and used a micrometer to check that there was no wear. Amazing after 30 year of racing. I used light oil on a rag to clean out the rudder tube, then lightly greased it and the shaft before reassembly. I researched a bit on what to use as a grease and decided on Lubriplate 115. It is a calcium based grease that is water resistant, the correct viscosity and tackiness. You do want the grease to work its way down the shaft slowly. When you grease the shaft through the nipples you should see some new grease being forced out the top without having to use too much pressure on the grease gun. Some "waterproof" greases such as for use on truck fifth wheels are too tacky. The Lubriplate is an old grease originally for car water pumps, claims to be suitable for plain bearings, slides etc. So far has worked well for me. Mike Brown C&C 30 Windburn ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 11:55:55 -0600 From: John <johnrussob...@optonline.net> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Tube Message-ID: <fa672baf-939a-4f78-812c-d63a9738d...@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Alex This is good time to install a grease fitting into the tube so you can grease as necessary. Yes the grease facilitates ease of rudder control and prevents or retards water ingress. I use Lubriplate AA which is a water resistant grease that is one step more viscous (thicker)than that used in a Max Prop operation. Bring your old bearings to a machine shop and have Teflon beatings made. John Arpeggio C&C 32 Norwalk Ct Sent from my iPad On Jul 3, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca> wrote: > >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 18:58:50 -0400 >> From: Alex Giannelia <a...@airsensing.com> >> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >> Subject: Stus-List Re-installing Rudder Post etc CC 35-II >> Message-ID: >> <1820d770a1e128438825b476052dffb0010bd4a15...@vmbx111.ihostexchange.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> So, >> >> I am at the stage where I want to re-install my rudder an am looking for a >> bit of advice. >> >> The SS post goes up through an opening in the hull which is not >> continuoulsly joined to the 2nd opening in the cockpit sole, so I was >> wondering if greasing it will not only control friction, but also water >> ingression, as the entry point is slightly above the waterline which changes >> when under sail, where we sometimes bury the bottom of the transom. >> >> Also, what appear to have been nylon washers both at the cockpit and the >> outside hull side are worn beyond, I want to replace with delrin (acetal). >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> ALEX GIANNELIA >> >> CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED >> ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006 >> Toronto Ontario >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130702/9a66b8d1/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 19:14:05 -0400 >> From: Alex Giannelia <a...@airsensing.com> >> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >> Subject: Stus-List More on Rudder replacement 35-II >> Message-ID: >> <1820d770a1e128438825b476052dffb0010bd4a15...@vmbx111.ihostexchange.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I did some reading and it turns out, I should need a Delrin or Nyon bushing >> on the hull side. Do these need to be custom made? >> >> ALEX GIANNELIA >> >> CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED >> ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006 >> Toronto Ontario > > Hi Alex, > > > I did a similar project on Windburn two years ago. > > The flat "plastic" pieces are thrust bearings. You have a choice > of materials but you should confirm that it does not absorb any > water. Some plastics do absorb small amounts. > > As mentioned from another post UHMW is a fine choice. From Wikipedia: > > "UHMWPE is odorless, tasteless, and nontoxic.[2] It is highly resistant to > corrosive chemicals except oxidizing acids; has extremely low moisture > absorption and a very low coefficient of friction; is self-lubricating; and > is highly resistant to abrasion, in some forms being 15 times more resistant > to abrasion than carbon steel. Its coefficient of friction is significantly > lower than that of nylon and acetal, and is comparable to that of > polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, Teflon), but UHMWPE has better abrasion > resistance than PTFE." > > > I purchased a tube of UHMW then took it to a machine shop. They drilled > out the center to match the shaft diameter and the outside to match my > requirements. I had six pieces made in slightly different thicknesses > so I could reduce the vertical play in the shaft during reassembly. > > > I removed the top locking ring ( held by two grub screws - make sure to > replace > them and use grub screws with the same tip type such as cone point ). > I also removed the top bearing and angle wedge so the locking ring and > top bearing could be sent out for stripping and chrome plating. > I have been using Mayfair Plating on Carlaw Ave, they know what they > are doing and have fair prices. The original plating had worn down > so the bronze and the thrust bearing were wearing out. > > The removal was difficult. The four bolts came through at an angle, > then were bent to match the plane of the cockpit sole. Then tightened > so much as to bend the bolts, had the extra length cut off and the > area "finished" with some caulking that went rock hard. Could not > even see the nuts to start with. > > When the rudder was out I borrowed a machinist's straight edge and > confirmed the shaft was perfectly straight, and used a micrometer > to check that there was no wear. Amazing after 30 year of racing. > > I used light oil on a rag to clean out the rudder tube, then lightly > greased it and the shaft before reassembly. I researched a bit on > what to use as a grease and decided on Lubriplate 115. It is a > calcium based grease that is water resistant, the correct viscosity > and tackiness. You do want the grease to work its way down the > shaft slowly. When you grease the shaft through the nipples you > should see some new grease being forced out the top without having > to use too much pressure on the grease gun. Some "waterproof" greases > such as for use on truck fifth wheels are too tacky. The Lubriplate > is an old grease originally for car water pumps, claims to be > suitable for plain bearings, slides etc. So far has worked well > for me. > > > Mike Brown > > C&C 30 > Windburn > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 21:47:18 -0400 From: Don Siddall <siddal...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Tube Message-ID: <51d4d426.5010...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Alex: I made a bearing for the top from a thicker piece of delrin using the original bearing as a pattern. It has worked very well for many thousands of miles. Originally my rudder tube had two bolts on opposite sides of the tube. I replaced one with a grease nipple to which I have permanently connected a grease gun. About every 24 hours of sailing I inject about four full pumps of waterproof grease into the tube. I like how this effects the helm - sensitive and easy to turn the wheel. Don ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 22:39:53 -0400 From: Bob Moriarty <bobmo...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Music in cockpit Message-ID: <cam7ccy+hxy1eumfmhej+u9tyh3sstzcq_ry5oazvdp_opjp...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ted, That is really cool and interesting. Thanks for posting the youtube and the details. I wonder if there's any sort of rock'n'roll or other music that barnacles and slime find repulsive. I say that mostly in jest, remembering the "magic ultrasound barnacle repeller system" from years back. Not trying to change the subject. I'm going to give your discovery a try. Bob M Ox 33-1 Jax, FL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130703/feebb859/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 22:07:54 -0600 From: Sam Salter <sam.c.sal...@gmail.com> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Music in cockpit Message-ID: <51d4f51a.6010...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" I'm thinking RAP or Barry Manilow! One of those will work. They both work on me! Sam Liquorice C&C 26 Ghost Lake Alberta On 03/07/2013 8:39 PM, Bob Moriarty wrote: > Ted, > That is really cool and interesting. Thanks for posting the youtube > and the details. > I wonder if there's any sort of rock'n'roll or other music that > barnacles and slime find repulsive. > I say that mostly in jest, remembering the "magic ultrasound barnacle > repeller system" from years back. > Not trying to change the subject. I'm going to give your discovery a try. > Bob M > Ox 33-1 > Jax, FL > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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