When you choose a C&C any size you are buying a boat that sails and is safe period this is my second one and both you could trim for over an hour without touching the helm. That is what I like. Barry Miller Miller Time C&C 34
My buddy Bill feels the same way about his 36 Sent from my iPad On Jun 1, 2013, at 7:09 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: > Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to > cnc-list@cnc-list.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Bigger Boat Question (Dr. Mark Bodnar) > 2. Re: Bigger Boat Question (Knowles Rich) > 3. Re: Bigger Boat Question (Dr. Mark Bodnar) > 4. Re: Bigger Boat Question (Knowles Rich) > 5. Re: Bigger Boat Question (Ronald B. Frerker) > 6. Re: Bigger Boat Question (Dennis C.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 13:05:16 -0300 > From: "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question > Message-ID: <51aa1bbc.7020...@accesswave.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130601/1f99d09f/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 17:10:46 -0300 > From: Knowles Rich <r...@sailpower.ca> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question > Message-ID: <e70a1d04-f9f8-4eb5-97f2-ad2d543fb...@sailpower.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Next bit of advice if you want to be comfortable: suggest increasing your > budget to at least 35k. > > Rich Knowles > Indigo. LF38 > Halifax > > On 2013-06-01, at 13:05, "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> wrote: > > > Thanks for all the feedback. Some of the messages were lost to the list, but > I think I saw them in other responses. > > Clearly the first thing I need to do is get on a bunch of boats, figure out > the space. I've tried to guess at how we are going to use the boat, so > I need to see how different boats might fit that. Plus good advice to ask > owners about what weaknesses they see with their own boats. > > I've narrowed my search mostly to C&C's because, as Rich notes, it's a > popular boat with good resale value, plus there are lots available. > > Based on the advice from the listers I'll open myself up to going a bit > bigger. I was initially focused on getting "the smallest boat I can live > with" - thinking it would save me money, but I realize that I could end up > with a boat that is too small to enjoy. I'll also focus more on boat > condition rather than size -- repairs on an older boat can easily add up to > more than the cost of the boat. > > Last I also had a good discussion that has me being less threatened by A4's. > I gather they can be quieter and smoother than a diesel. Again, I'll have to > get on a couple similar sized boats and hear/feel the difference. > > I'm sure I'll be looking for more advice as it goes forwards, > > Mark > > > --------------------- > Dr. Mark Bodnar > B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C) > Bedford Chiropractic > www.bedfordchiro.ca > --------------------- > > There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. > - George Santayana > On 30/05/2013 9:49 PM, Knowles Rich wrote: >> Hmm. Good list, but... If one is prone to indecision and second guessing, >> this simply adds to the huge pile of considerations to ponder before you can >> go sailing. Perhaps better to decide on a popular make like C&C that will be >> resellable, get a couple of knowledgeable friends you believe in, and go >> looking for a decent local boat in the price range you can tolerate. Buy it, >> go sailing, and learn from the experience. There are always bigger, better, >> faster and fancier boats out there, but you won't really know what you >> want/need until you have tried a couple. >> >> Rich Knowles >> Indigo. LF38 >> Halifax >> >> On 2013-05-30, at 21:26, Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Nice list! >> >> I might add PHRF, electronics, sail inventory, holding tank, pressure water, >> hot water heater. >> >> Joel >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 30, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Dennis C." <capt...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> One of my crew is looking for a boat, his first. I sent him a list of >>> things to consider. Here's most of them. >>> >>> Bridge clearance- friend of mine has a nice big boat that can't get under >>> several critical bridges leading to some prime sailing. Touche' is even >>> too tall to get under some bridges where we sail >>> How are the shrouds attached? Most C&C's carry the shroud load to the >>> hull. Many boats carry the load to a bulkhead. I don't like that. >>> Keel - fin, bulb, shoal, wing, full, centerboard, dagger board >>> Anchor locker on foredeck? >>> Fold down, pedestal or mast dinette table >>> Split lower shrouds vs inline shrouds >>> Straight vs swept back spreaders? >>> Baby stay? >>> Diesel vs gas? >>> Folding or fixed prop? >>> Head? Shower? >>> Tiller vs wheel? >>> Propane stove? >>> Mast head vs fractional? If I was looking for a race boat today, I'd go >>> fractional >>> Traveler location? End boom, bridgedeck, cabintop? >>> Big cockpit for entertaining? >>> Straight drive vs V-drive? >>> Fiberglass vs holly/teak sole? >>> Opening ports? >>> Sugar scoop transom, stern ladder, opening >>> Fiberglass headliner vs vinyl headliner >>> >>> The list goes on and on. >>> >>> When I was shopping for my first boat, I was pretty ignorant. I wanted a >>> wheel, diesel and shower. Result? First boat - 0 for 3. Second boat had >>> a wheel. :) >>> >>> Dennis C. >>> Touche' 35-1 #83 >>> Mandeville, LA >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130601/559673c2/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2013 17:50:13 -0300 > From: "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question > Message-ID: <51aa5e85.1030...@accesswave.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130601/8b017177/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 18:09:55 -0300 > From: Knowles Rich <r...@sailpower.ca> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question > Message-ID: <d9ea6140-03a7-4517-b313-1c7c650ea...@sailpower.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Understood. However, "Toy" may be the wrong word. For many of us it's a > consuming lifetime passion, a hobby with few equals, a wonderful replacement > for a summer cottage, and a terrific antidote for work. > > Rich Knowles > Indigo. LF38 > Halifax > > On 2013-06-01, at 17:50, "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> wrote: > > > Well that would be nice, but I'm not prepared to sink that much money into a > "toy" > I know that I'll spend lots of money as time passes, but if I drop $35G on > the boat PLUS upkeep etc, well I'd need to save money for a couple more years > to afford that, right about the time my oldest will start siphoning off cash > to go to university! > --------------------- > Dr. Mark Bodnar > B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C) > Bedford Chiropractic > www.bedfordchiro.ca > --------------------- > > There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. > - George Santayana > On 01/06/2013 5:10 PM, Knowles Rich wrote: >> Next bit of advice if you want to be comfortable: suggest increasing your >> budget to at least 35k. >> >> Rich Knowles >> Indigo. LF38 >> Halifax >> >> On 2013-06-01, at 13:05, "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> wrote: >> >> >> Thanks for all the feedback. Some of the messages were lost to the list, >> but I think I saw them in other responses. >> >> Clearly the first thing I need to do is get on a bunch of boats, figure out >> the space. I've tried to guess at how we are going to use the boat, so I >> need to see how different boats might fit that. Plus good advice to ask >> owners about what weaknesses they see with their own boats. >> >> I've narrowed my search mostly to C&C's because, as Rich notes, it's a >> popular boat with good resale value, plus there are lots available. >> >> Based on the advice from the listers I'll open myself up to going a bit >> bigger. I was initially focused on getting "the smallest boat I can live >> with" - thinking it would save me money, but I realize that I could end up >> with a boat that is too small to enjoy. I'll also focus more on boat >> condition rather than size -- repairs on an older boat can easily add up to >> more than the cost of the boat. >> >> Last I also had a good discussion that has me being less threatened by A4's. >> I gather they can be quieter and smoother than a diesel. Again, I'll have >> to get on a couple similar sized boats and hear/feel the difference. >> >> I'm sure I'll be looking for more advice as it goes forwards, >> >> Mark >> >> >> --------------------- >> Dr. Mark Bodnar >> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C) >> Bedford Chiropractic >> www.bedfordchiro.ca >> --------------------- >> >> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. >> - George Santayana >> On 30/05/2013 9:49 PM, Knowles Rich wrote: >>> Hmm. Good list, but... If one is prone to indecision and second guessing, >>> this simply adds to the huge pile of considerations to ponder before you >>> can go sailing. Perhaps better to decide on a popular make like C&C that >>> will be resellable, get a couple of knowledgeable friends you believe in, >>> and go looking for a decent local boat in the price range you can tolerate. >>> Buy it, go sailing, and learn from the experience. There are always bigger, >>> better, faster and fancier boats out there, but you won't really know what >>> you want/need until you have tried a couple. >>> >>> Rich Knowles >>> Indigo. LF38 >>> Halifax >>> >>> On 2013-05-30, at 21:26, Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Nice list! >>> >>> I might add PHRF, electronics, sail inventory, holding tank, pressure >>> water, hot water heater. >>> >>> Joel >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On May 30, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Dennis C." <capt...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> One of my crew is looking for a boat, his first. I sent him a list of >>>> things to consider. Here's most of them. >>>> >>>> Bridge clearance- friend of mine has a nice big boat that can't get under >>>> several critical bridges leading to some prime sailing. Touche' is even >>>> too tall to get under some bridges where we sail >>>> How are the shrouds attached? Most C&C's carry the shroud load to the >>>> hull. Many boats carry the load to a bulkhead. I don't like that. >>>> Keel - fin, bulb, shoal, wing, full, centerboard, dagger board >>>> Anchor locker on foredeck? >>>> Fold down, pedestal or mast dinette table >>>> Split lower shrouds vs inline shrouds >>>> Straight vs swept back spreaders? >>>> Baby stay? >>>> Diesel vs gas? >>>> Folding or fixed prop? >>>> Head? Shower? >>>> Tiller vs wheel? >>>> Propane stove? >>>> Mast head vs fractional? If I was looking for a race boat today, I'd go >>>> fractional >>>> Traveler location? End boom, bridgedeck, cabintop? >>>> Big cockpit for entertaining? >>>> Straight drive vs V-drive? >>>> Fiberglass vs holly/teak sole? >>>> Opening ports? >>>> Sugar scoop transom, stern ladder, opening >>>> Fiberglass headliner vs vinyl headliner >>>> >>>> The list goes on and on. >>>> >>>> When I was shopping for my first boat, I was pretty ignorant. I wanted a >>>> wheel, diesel and shower. Result? First boat - 0 for 3. Second boat had >>>> a wheel. :) >>>> >>>> Dennis C. >>>> Touche' 35-1 #83 >>>> Mandeville, LA >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130601/48512a6f/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 14:29:51 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Ronald B. Frerker" <rbfrer...@yahoo.com> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question > Message-ID: > <1370122191.55331.yahoomailclas...@web122906.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I'd go for the best value that you can get now.My biggest regret about > sailing is that I waited too long to buy my first boat.When I jumped in, I > bought a Venture 21 from a friend, three years later a San Juan 24 which was > a nice boat with full standing headroom, if you're 5ft 4in, and finally a C&C > 30.The 30 is the first boat of adult size with standing headroom for normal > sized folks. It has an oven, but my wife has no intention of using it! ?It > was a great family decision and all the kids still love sailing.And in my > case, the A4 was replaced with a 3cyl Universal diesel and that's not too bad > for quiet operation. ?Friends with the small yanmars seem more shakey, but I > think it's a matter of how many cylinders; the more the quieter.The 30 is > best in 12-15kts IMHO and can sail its number for racing. ?However, it moves > well in light air, just harder to race its number. ?I use a 165% genny which > really aids light air performance. > ?The?performance?is worth the?race penalty since I live in the midwest and we > have either light air or tornadoes.RonWild CheriSTL > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130601/6f78b844/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 18:09:28 -0500 > From: "Dennis C." <capt...@yahoo.com> > To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Subject: Re: Stus-List Bigger Boat Question > Message-ID: <7572cac4-7b6d-4bad-aae3-b6de099ad...@yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mark, > > Having had two AT4's, I can say I like the engine. I put electronic ignition > on my 1st one but stayed with the standard points and condenser on my second. > They were both dependable. > > The issue I had with AT4's was not flammability. This issue is way > overblown. > > The real issue with AT4's is power to the prop. The hp/torque curve is > steeper than that of a diesel. To crank out the full 25 or so hp of the AT4, > you need to run 2500-2800 rpm. The vast majority of AT4's are 1:1 drive. > That's why they swing a 5 or 6 pitch prop. If you're punching into seas at 3 > knots, running 2500 rpm will result in a lot of cavitation. Making bubbles > isn't efficient in transferring hp to forward motion. > > Otherwise AT4's are great engines. > > Dennis C. > Touch? 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > Currently enjoying a cockpit cocktail in Palafox Pier marina in Pensacola > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 1, 2013, at 11:05 AM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> wrote: > >> >> Thanks for all the feedback. Some of the messages were lost to the list, >> but I think I saw them in other responses. >> >> Clearly the first thing I need to do is get on a bunch of boats, figure out >> the space. I've tried to guess at how we are going to use the boat, so I >> need to see how different boats might fit that. Plus good advice to ask >> owners about what weaknesses they see with their own boats. >> >> I've narrowed my search mostly to C&C's because, as Rich notes, it's a >> popular boat with good resale value, plus there are lots available. >> >> Based on the advice from the listers I'll open myself up to going a bit >> bigger. I was initially focused on getting "the smallest boat I can live >> with" - thinking it would save me money, but I realize that I could end up >> with a boat that is too small to enjoy. I'll also focus more on boat >> condition rather than size -- repairs on an older boat can easily add up to >> more than the cost of the boat. >> >> Last I also had a good discussion that has me being less threatened by A4's. >> I gather they can be quieter and smoother than a diesel. Again, I'll have >> to get on a couple similar sized boats and hear/feel the difference. >> >> I'm sure I'll be looking for more advice as it goes forwards, >> >> Mark >> >> >> --------------------- >> Dr. Mark Bodnar >> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C) >> Bedford Chiropractic >> www.bedfordchiro.ca >> --------------------- >> >> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. >> - George Santayana >> On 30/05/2013 9:49 PM, Knowles Rich wrote: >>> Hmm. Good list, but... If one is prone to indecision and second guessing, >>> this simply adds to the huge pile of considerations to ponder before you >>> can go sailing. Perhaps better to decide on a popular make like C&C that >>> will be resellable, get a couple of knowledgeable friends you believe in, >>> and go looking for a decent local boat in the price range you can tolerate. >>> Buy it, go sailing, and learn from the experience. There are always bigger, >>> better, faster and fancier boats out there, but you won't really know what >>> you want/need until you have tried a couple. >>> >>> Rich Knowles >>> Indigo. LF38 >>> Halifax >>> >>> On 2013-05-30, at 21:26, Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Nice list! >>> >>> I might add PHRF, electronics, sail inventory, holding tank, pressure >>> water, hot water heater. >>> >>> Joel >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On May 30, 2013, at 8:19 PM, "Dennis C." <capt...@yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> One of my crew is looking for a boat, his first. I sent >>>> him a list of things to consider. Here's most of them. >>>> >>>> Bridge clearance- friend of mine has a nice big boat that can't get under >>>> several critical bridges leading to some prime sailing. Touche' is even >>>> too tall to get under some bridges where we sail >>>> How are the shrouds attached? Most C&C's carry the shroud load to the >>>> hull. Many boats carry the load to a bulkhead. I don't like that. >>>> Keel - fin, bulb, shoal, wing, full, centerboard, dagger board >>>> Anchor locker on foredeck? >>>> Fold down, pedestal or mast dinette table >>>> Split lower shrouds vs inline shrouds >>>> Straight vs swept back spreaders? >>>> Baby stay? >>>> Diesel vs gas? >>>> Folding or fixed prop? >>>> Head? Shower? >>>> Tiller vs wheel? >>>> Propane stove? >>>> Mast head vs fractional? If I was looking for a race boat today, I'd go >>>> fractional >>>> Traveler location? End boom, bridgedeck, cabintop? >>>> Big cockpit for entertaining? >>>> Straight drive vs V-drive? >>>> Fiberglass vs holly/teak sole? >>>> Opening ports? >>>> Sugar scoop transom, stern ladder, opening >>>> Fiberglass headliner vs vinyl headliner >>>> >>>> The list goes on and on. >>>> >>>> When I was shopping for my first boat, I was pretty ignorant. I wanted a >>>> wheel, diesel and shower. Result? First boat - 0 for 3. Second boat had >>>> a wheel. :) >>>> >>>> Dennis C. >>>> Touche' 35-1 #83 >>>> Mandeville, LA >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/attachments/20130601/154f3176/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > CnC-List mailing list > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of CnC-List Digest, Vol 89, Issue 2 > *************************************** _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
