Hi all, I do appreciate the efforts to keep toolforge running, and that sometimes massive changes are necessary to do this, which has implications for tool maintainers. I also understand that there have to be deadlines at some point, otherwise things will never get finished.
But as I have said on Phabricator (can't find the ticket now), I have been active in moving things to k8s from early on; I have literally rewritten enormous codebases (eg Mix'n'match) in a different language, because the k8s approach does not support the way I did things with grid engine. And while I think the new code is an improvement over the old one, it has taken a huge amount of my time to do this, with little visible improvement for the end user. K8s, as it's run right now on toolforge, can not - use fire-and-forget jobs, because everything needs a name that you may or may not re-use - has very limited per-tool resources, and the webservice reduces those even further - can not temporarily scale up. Eg I need to process a lot of data once; on grid engine, I could just fire off all the jobs, wait for them to complete, re-run the failed ones etc. This is simply not possible on k8s as it is. - Even the current Wikitech documentation still uses grid engine, eg https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Toolforge/Rust (I have tried, and failed, to get that running on k8s) I know there is a technical reason to limit per-tool k8s resources so much (something about running on a single VM), but IMHO there needs to be a lot more flexibility; give the user the option to scale up tool resources without having to go through Phab bureaucracy, run jobs on a large (shared) k8s pool, auto-generate job names for fire-and-forget jobs, something. As for the deadline(s) given here, as I stated above, I started quite early on this, and invested a lot of work. Yet, I still have tools listed on https://grid-deprecation.toolforge.org/ (which was not linked from the original mail, despite being the main link people need IMHO), so I do feel the pressure myself. Maybe you could disable grid engine for all tools NOT on that page, to ensure no one restarts with grid engine, and leave a smaller pool running for the remaining tools, to make resources available for k8s while giving the remaining tool users a bit more time? Apologies for long rant, Magnus On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 7:13 PM <meta...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, this is a provocative approach to migration! > > * Clarification Q: The timeline was finalized on November 28, and any > tools and cronjobs w/ no response from maintainers will stop working on the > same day on December 14th, regardless of how actively they are used? Is > there anything that users of those tools can do to delay this? It might be > worth posting in places where active /users/ of tools hang out, not just > the maintainers, as they will be inconvenienced and may be able to share > maintainership where needed. > > * Can you share stats on how many tools remain to be migrated, how many > will stop in December, and which are the most-used? This phab board has > ~460 open tasks > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/board/6135/query/open/ , > some created this week by the maintainers after receiving a recent ping > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T352564 , while > https://grid-deprecation.toolforge.org/ lists only 447 tools still > running on GE -- scores of which seem quite popular. > > * When "grid infrastructure is deleted" on March 14, will there be backups > of the tools for people who want to migrate them in the future? > > * At least Maarten and Albin asked to be unassigned from migration tasks > for their tools (but remain assigned). If they can't unassign themselves, > and users need to coordinate finding migrators for their tools to keep > working: is there some other way to flag in Phab which tools need someone > to work on migration? Ideally a way visible from taskboard overviews... > > Cordially, Sam > _______________________________________________ > Cloud mailing list -- cloud@lists.wikimedia.org > List information: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/cloud.lists.wikimedia.org/ >
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