On 18 July 2015 at 18:44, Luc Prefontaine <lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca> wrote:
> Sure, indentation is what gets the code running on metal :)) > That remark is wrong on so many levels... In the words of the legendary SICP authors - "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute." > > Not ranting here, just my abs dying from the pain as I laugh :)) > > As for the contrib process, go have a look at Linux. You'll be happy that > Rich is cool by every meaning of the word. > I've been involved in many OSS project and certainly there are projects where the contribution process is worse than Clojure's. I do believe, however, that pointing that things could be worse in not the right attitude. There's always room for improvement. > > There's this misconception about open source that we should all wear > flower collars and sing Kumbaya. Mostly a 60's view of human collaboration. > > That ain't the way to get it done. > It works for ants and termites, they work as groups but we are human > beings with our strong individuality. > > Some form of central control is needed. Opposed by traction from some > individuals that would like to move faster or in other directions. > Central control is not the same as dictator. It's not uncommon for projects to have several "leaders". Sure, having less people on the top makes it easier to make decisions, but it also makes it easier to make mistakes (not to mention it creates bottlenecks here and there). > > This is ok but not at the expense of the cohesion of the end result. > > Hence this tensed balance. > > Rich created Clojure, he knows were he wants to go with it. Any ideas we > bring in the process is evaluated. However not all of them make sense or > are worth the effort to implement. > > Aside from our respective ego being hurt because our ideas are not > retained or our contribs vetted in the first pass there's little damage > done. > I doubt anyone thinks something like this is a big problem. After all it's common for some ideas to be shot down and complex ideas require a lot of time to reach maturity. If there's something I dislike it's that sometimes important bugfixes are delayed for quite a while. Especially in the absense of bugfix releases. > > If it was not the case Clojure would have zero traction and Linux > likewise. Search for Linus rants about contributors and try to relate this > with the level of success of Linux. > > They are not so many open source projects that have the same stability > from release to release as Clojure or Linux. > You're comparing apples to oranges here. Linux is not a one-man show - most subsystems have their own maintainers and Linus monitors the development there only cursory. Not to mention there's no company acting as the steward of the language. I'm not saying one of the approaches is better/worse, I'm just saying that's a poor base for such a comparison. > > Control and absence of complacency are key factors to achieve this kind of > success. > > Luc P. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 18, 2015, at 07:13, Andrey Antukh <n...@niwi.nz> wrote: > > Hi! > > I have some, maybe controversial, questions... > > A little bit of context: > https://twitter.com/aphyr/status/621806683908542464 > > Why this is like a normal approach for managing third party contributions > to clojure core? This kind of things the only discourages the > contributions. Maybe I don't have more context about this concrete case, > but seems is not a unique. > And in general, I have the perception that the clojure development process > is a little bit opaque... > > An other question: Why the great amount of clojure compiler code has no > indentation style and bunch of commented code. > > It is indented like a freshman. Sorry, I don't want offend any one, but > eyes hurt when reading the code compiler clojure (obviously I'm speaking > about the look and feel, and no the quality of the code). > > Some examples: > > Indentation (or maybe no indentation): > > https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/36d665793b43f62cfd22354aced4c6892088abd6/src/jvm/clojure/lang/APersistentVector.java#L86 > > Bunch of commented code and also no indentation: > > https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/AMapEntry.java#L60 > > If you compare some clojure compiler code with different code snippets > from other languages, the indentation is clearly more cared: > > Kotlin: > https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlin/blob/master/core/descriptors/src/org/jetbrains/kotlin/types/AbstractClassTypeConstructor.java#L44 > Rust: > https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/blob/master/src/libstd/io/buffered.rs#L165 > Ceylon: > https://github.com/ceylon/ceylon-compiler/blob/master/src/com/redhat/ceylon/compiler/java/codegen/AttributeDefinitionBuilder.java#L233 > > This is a random list of code snippets from different compilers with > indentation that is more human friendly. > > I don't intend judge any one, but when a I learn Clojure compiler I expect > something different. I expect something more carefully done. > > No body thinks the same thing that me? > > I think that have a sane, more open contribution policy, with clear and > more cared code formatting, is not very complicated thing and is going to > favor the clojure and its community. > > Andrey > -- > Andrey Antukh - Андрей Антух - <n...@niwi.nz> > http://www.niwi.nz > https://github.com/niwinz > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. 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