I did ask Peter Norvig to show support for Clojure with simple programs like he did with his Python spellchecker. He could even use Clojure for a new edition of AIMA. But I am not sure he is going to do that.
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Tom Marble <tmar...@gmail.com> wrote: > @deepbluelambda: > > Thank you for bringing this up! I am, like you, a huge fan of Clojure > and Free/Libre Open Source Software (and building community). > > In the interest of full disclosure I on the Software Freedom > Conservancy [0] Evaluation Committee and I am a member of Software in > the Public Interest [1] (and a contributor to Debian -- one of the big > SPI projects). I would, therefore, need to recuse myself from voting > on any Clojure community organization. > > The key rational you give on the wiki page [2] in asking for > support from a fiscal sponsorship organization is (in summary): > > A. GSoC (or a program like it) and student conference travel > B. Infrastructure (like Clojars) > C. User group/event support > D. Provide beginner materials and training > E. A place to donate to > > Let me comment on each of these... > > > A. GSoC > > First of all thank you for being being a GSoC mentor! > As long as Google continues GSoC (and the Clojure community > can provide motivated mentors and students) there is reduced > pressure for additional fiscal sponsorship. Often times mentoring > organizations will use their $500 portion [3] to help subsidize > student travel. I would guess that if we asked conference > organizers to support approved GSoC student travel they may > be able to help bridge any gaps. > > I also want to make everyone aware of Outreachy -- a related internship > program intended to increase diversity in FLOSS [4]. Outreachy > is symbiotic with GSoC during the "summer" sessions: Outreachy > applicants that qualify for GSoC are encouraged to do so. > Unlike GSoC Outreachy applicants do *not* need to be students and > Outreachy offers a "winter" session. Outreachy is now a member > of SFC (and thus can take donations). > > > B. Infrastructure (like Clojars) > > I think everyone will agree with me that we owe a lot of gratitude > to @atosborne @technomancy @tcrawley and @xeqixeqi for making > Clojars awesome (and an essential part of our Clojure workflow). > > I notice that some of the costs are (or at least were) covered > by sponsors such as Heroku [5]. I am not clear on how additional > funding could or would be used for Clojars: I think we'd need hear > opinions on that from the Clojars maintainers directly. > (That being said I'd definitely donate!) > > Both @htmfilho and @albinst brainstormed about additional > infrastructure ideas (which are cool and I bet there many more)! One > tool I use all the time is Grimoire [6] and I wonder if @arrdem has > what he needs for this (or could do more with more support)? > > I'm sort of torn about this... on the one hand I love the idea > of supporting cool tools, but on the other hand I'm worried > about how funds would be managed/distributed to toolmakers. > I think many of the cool tools we already have are works > of pure passion. > > > C. User group/event support > > Typically fiscal sponsorship organizations help projects > run their own conferences. I can't even imagine trying to outdo > the amazing conferences put on by @puredanger @lynngrogan > and Cognitect. What's more I have to recognize conferences like > Clojure Conj, Clojure/West and Strangeloop for offering > opportunity grants [7] and diversity scholarships [8]. > > So if we don't run the conferences and the conferences already support > diversity and we might have at least a partial solution for students > (see above) then there may not be very much additional sponsorship > needed??? > > It's important to point out that our really cool ClojureBridge > events [9] benefit already from the fiscal sponsorship of > BridgeFoundry [10]. (advertisement: @ClojureBridgeMN [11] is > hosting three more workshops this year in the Twin Cities... > ask me how you can sponsor ClojureBridge to be even more awesome!) > > As for user groups my guess is that local groups can attract local > sponsors for any other events. I'm not sure there's enough events in > this category (not covered by conferences and ClojureBridge) to > justify having a fiscal sponsorship organization. > > > D. Provide beginner materials and training > > Providing fiscal sponsorship for beginner materials is tricky > in the same way funding B. Infrastructure is. > > And I'll point out that there already are some community > resources for beginner materials (including ClojureBridge [12]). > Don't get me wrong.. I'm all in favor of more and better > beginner materials! (Well, maybe is fewer/concise materials > are "more", but that's another story...) > > My guess is that training is tricky for a different reason: > training involves more money, more engineer time (vs. supporting > infrastructure) and already has competitive commercial offerings. > I'll try to find out how SFC handles this sort of thing. > > > E. A place to donate to > > Any place that accepts donations (esp. in the non-profit sense) > must make explicitly clear how the donations will be used. > Therefore the to the question "what is the mission" (i.e. > the topics above) is a prerequisite for accepting donations. > > > In terms of organization you offer the options > i) for-profit > ii) 501(c)3 Non-profit > iii) 501(c)6 Trade association > iv) member in a fiscal sponsorship org like SFC or SPI > > As you point out I don't think a new "for profit" organization > would be a good alignment with community goals. > > Creating a brand new 501(c)3 is really out of the question -- the > administrative burden is immense. > > A Trade Association *might* make sense, but it would only be > possible if Cognitect felt this would be a good idea. It's important > to remember that Trade Associations (e.g. the Linux Foundation) > are responsible to their members (not the community) and that > gives them a substantially different flavor. > > Joining a fiscal sponsorship organization like SFC or SPI is > the most sensible thing for a community project to do. > These organizations do, as you suggest, take on much of the burden > of administrating donations and expenses so that developers can > concentrate on hacking. > > I don't know (but I'll ask) how SFC handles a prospective project > with a code base that uses copyright aggregation as Clojure does. > > As @richhickey is the Clojure copyright holder I think any fiscal > sponsorship application would want to include a statement from Rich on > his feelings and desired relationship with the proposed community > organization. Even before that I wonder if Rich has any thoughts on > all this??? > > In any case I thank you for thinking of the community and > I'm confident we'll figure out how to address the needs you > raise (with or without a new fiscal sponsorship organization)! > > And if you've made it to end of this long rant I want to thank > @richhickey (and all the contributors) for Clojure: every time I have > to jump back to Common Lisp I thank Rich for making elegant, > opinionated decisions that make coding a joy! > > Regards, > > --Tom > > > [0] http://sfconservancy.org/members/apply/ > [1] http://spi-inc.org/ > [2] > http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Clojure+Community+Organisation > [3] > https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/help_page > [4] https://www.gnome.org/outreachy/ > [5] https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/wiki/About > [6] http://conj.io/contributing > [7] http://clojure-conj.org/grants > [8] https://thestrangeloop.com/attendees/diversity-scholarships > [9] http://www.clojurebridge.org/ > [10] http://bridgefoundry.org/ > [11] https://twitter.com/ClojureBridgeMN > [12] https://github.com/clojurebridge > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
