Hey Colin - thanks for the kind words! And I must apologise for my last previous comment too - I actually meant to come back and do so but didn't for whatever reason. It was one of those comments that sounded better in my head than when I saw it written down later - I'm sorry about that. I'm sure your team are very happy with you, even with the backlog work :-)
Anyway, I'm glad you're liking Cursive, thanks for taking the time to come back and say so! It almost definitely has had a lot of the rough edges filed off since you tried it last. I actually used Emacs for years when I was writing C++ - it's a long time ago now but I have memories of a huge amount of yak-shaving on an ongoing basis. I suspect it's a much better experience when writing Clojure though, and the various Emacs packages have come a long way since then too. But I'm really glad you're finding Cursive a compelling alternative. Now that I have a good infrastructure written I'm starting to add functionality that plays to IntelliJ's strengths too, which is pretty exciting. BTW the latest release actually finally fixes the keybinding issue too: https://cursiveclojure.com/userguide/keybindings.html. People have been complaining about that for far too long! On 7 October 2014 00:04, Colin Yates <colin.ya...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just FYI - I got a new laptop and thought I would give it another > look-see. Consider me impressed. I maybe didn't spend enough time with it, > but a lot of the rough edges have been smoothed out, the performance seems > to have increased, it is just a really nice place to be. > > To be clear, emacs rocks, it can do anything, it just doesn't do > everything out of the box. Emacs Prelude goes a long long way, and the > paredit (or smart-parens now?), tight repl integration, undo-tree and magit > are still the best implementations I have seen anywhere, but sad to say, > when viewed under a "no time, got to get things done" coupled with > "consistency across developers", it didn't hold up too well. To put it > another way, I am admitting defeat - emacs is sufficient, the time I have > to learn and teach emacs is insufficient. Cursive still requires some > pampering (setting up keymaps etc.) and there are still some rough edges > (being able to delete delimiters and not be able to add them back for > example), but for the 80/20 rule, it rocks. > > And IntelliJ is also a very nice place to be. > > Consider my words firmly eaten :). > > (Oh, and according to my team you still wouldn't want to work with me :). > Off to find some horrible backlog work for them now!). > > On Friday, 11 April 2014 12:34:04 UTC+1, Colin Fleming wrote: >> >> No worries, I didn't think what you wrote was inflammatory and it's >> undeniable that Emacs has the largest mindshare in the Clojure world. But >> the alternatives are getting better and better and I think I could make a >> reasonable case that Cursive is better than Emacs for some circumstances >> and/or projects. I personally didn't like the initial versions of >> LightTable (it felt like a bit of a one-trick pony and the trick didn't >> really work for me) but the guys working on it are smart and I'm sure it's >> getting a lot of plugin love now it's open source, so I'm sure that'll be a >> real contender soon if it isn't already. >> >> Emacs clearly works for the OP so there's no issue there, but I think >> it's less and less a foregone conclusion that everyone will end up there. I >> personally wouldn't work for you if you forced me to use it, but that's >> just me :-) >> >> >> On 11 April 2014 22:04, Colin Yates <colin...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Colin - you are right - I shouldn't throw out such inflammatory marks, >>> particularly when they do a disservice to the excellent work done in >>> Cursive Clojure, Lighttable and Counter Clockwise (and others that I am not >>> aware off). >>> >>> For me personally, after years of using Eclipse then IntelliJ and (to a >>> much lesser degree) Sublime I am forcing my team to use emacs. And yes, >>> forcing is the word as they are utterly sold on sublime and really don't >>> like me much at the moment :). >>> >>> It is the classical short term/long term win, and emacs is worth the >>> investment for us. But it absolutely is an investment. >>> >>> Disclaimer - I haven't looked at any of the other editors for months if >>> not years. >>> >>> >>> On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:20:37 AM UTC+1, Colin Fleming wrote: >>> >>>> you can fight it as hard as you like but you will eventually end up >>>>> using emacs, clojure-mode, cider, paredit and magit and then wonder how >>>>> you >>>>> ever lived without it, but not without spending at least a month or two >>>>> cursing anything to do with emacs :). >>>>> >>>> >>>> As the developer of Cursive, I'd like to politely disagree with this >>>> point. I think that Cursive provides a very competitive feature set but >>>> without the swearing :-). Of course I'm totally biased, so take with a >>>> grain of salt, but I think particularly for Clojure newbies it's worth a >>>> look - learning Emacs at the same time as Clojure can be a recipe for >>>> frustration. >>>> >>>> Of course, it doesn't have to be Cursive, there are other options in >>>> case Emacs gives you hives. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11 April 2014 20:17, Colin Yates <colin...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> As others have said - a more focused question would help. >>>>> >>>>> Our back end runs on ring + compojure using https://github.com/jkk/ >>>>> honeysql for querying and straight https://github.com/cl >>>>> ojure/java.jdbc for writes. We use https://github.com/marick/Midj >>>>> e/wiki rather than clojure.test and https://github.com/gdeer81 >>>>> /marginalia for documentation. >>>>> >>>>> This is the first major Clojure app, so lots of lessons have been >>>>> learnt. Things I wish I knew: >>>>> >>>>> - read the ring spec - it is all just a map, phenomenally >>>>> powerful. Now read it again >>>>> - consider using https://github.com/zcaudate/lein-midje-doc as >>>>> well as/instead of marginalia >>>>> - consider using https://github.com/jaycfields/expectations >>>>> instead of midje. Midje is fantastic, but expectations, particularly >>>>> the >>>>> 'diffing' looks like a real win >>>>> - consider using something like https://github.com/prismatic/schema >>>>> to document your API from day one. >>>>> - you can fight it as hard as you like but you will eventually end >>>>> up using emacs, clojure-mode, cider, paredit and magit and then wonder >>>>> how >>>>> you ever lived without it, but not without spending at least a month >>>>> or two >>>>> cursing anything to do with emacs :). >>>>> >>>>> Just my random, off the cuff thoughts. Hope they help. >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:13:19 PM UTC+1, Kashyap CK wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> I have the opportunity to build a set of services from scratch. I >>>>>> plan to use clojure for this. >>>>>> I'd like to experiment with options available out there - options >>>>>> such as - what webserver, what database etc. I'd like it very much if you >>>>>> could share some of your experiences in this and possibly some pitfalls >>>>>> to >>>>>> avoid. >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Kashyap >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient >>>>> with your first post. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com >>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>> your first post. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
