A dated but relevant discussion between Rich Hickey and Dr. Cliff Click, ex-CTO Azul Systems - http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/cliff/2008-05-27-clojure-stms-vs-locks
Sent from phone. Please excuse brevity. On 28 Apr 2013 10:04, "Timothy Baldridge" <tbaldri...@gmail.com> wrote: > E-mail thread had less to do with issues of Clojure per se, but more with > issues the JVM had running on a 48-way machine. Or am I missing something? > > IIRC the Azul people played with Clojure a bit, I wonder if their suped-up > JVM allows Clojure to perform any better. > > Timothy > > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Lee Spector <lspec...@hampshire.edu>wrote: > >> >> I don't want to be too much of a downer, but our experience running >> Clojure on 48-core machines was pretty depressing, with our speedups often >> being near zero or even negative (that is, running on 48 cores can be >> slower than running on 1, for a task that would seem to be a good candidate >> for parallelization, and with what would seem to be good techniques for >> doing the parallelization). Several people tried to help us diagnose/fix >> the problems (see this thread: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/clojure/48W2eff3caU), >> but I don't think that there has been a definitive resolution. >> >> -Lee >> >> >> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:23 PM, Yves S. Garret wrote: >> >> > I'll take a blind stab at this and say that Erlang might actually do >> > more poorly, unless the chip's interchip message passing is taken >> > advantage of by Erlang. If there's a separate piece of hardware >> > taking on the role of being the messenger, having to waste computer >> > cycles to send a message isn't terribly efficient. >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Cedric Greevey <cgree...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Yves S. Garret < >> yoursurrogate...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > How would this compare to Erlang? >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Cedric Greevey <cgree...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MIC >> > >> > 50+ cores?! Clojure will leave every other language in the dust on >> something like that, thanks to its inherently scaleable concurrency >> constructs. Try writing a 50-threaded Java application without getting >> deadlocks all over the place, or cheating and using very coarse-grained >> locks (have fun with the task manager showing 2% CPU utilization when your >> app is running full-bore!). >> > >> > If big, 32-bit addressing spaces were what made automatic memory >> management really begin to come into its own (and with it, Java), then it's >> doubtless 50-core machines that will make automatic concurrency management >> really begin to come into its own. >> > >> > Erlang might also do well on such a machine. The actor model likely >> involves more communication among the cores to get full utilization, but >> then, the page describes some sort of message-passing system among the >> cores on MIC, so ... >> > >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "Clojure" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> > --- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "Clojure" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> > --- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Lee Spector, Professor of Computer Science >> Cognitive Science, Hampshire College >> 893 West Street, Amherst, MA 01002-3359 >> lspec...@hampshire.edu, http://hampshire.edu/lspector/ >> Phone: 413-559-5352, Fax: 413-559-5438 >> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > -- > “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking > zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C > programs.” > (Robert Firth) > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. 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