Hi Laurent, I've committed some refactoring that implements defschema in terms of def-loose-schema. I also added a note to the readme explaining that :clj-schema.schema/strict true metadata is required to make a schema strict.
As for the beginning part of your message, I have to mull the ideas over a little, but appreciate the ideas. Alex On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:31 AM, Laurent PETIT <laurent.pe...@gmail.com>wrote: > 2012/12/11 Alex Baranosky <alexander.barano...@gmail.com> > >> Christophe, one thing I've wondered about the design of clj-schema is >> whether the schema is even the right place for determining looseness or >> strictness. In some sense that is a property of the validation process. >> It sometimes makes sense to use the same schema, but in some cases >> validate it loosely or in other cases validate it strictly. > > > Isn't that the case already? I see that you put ::strict-schema metadata > via the loose-schema / strict-schema functions ? > > i agree that schema could be defined without looseness / strictness > information, and that it could be a property of the "validation run". > In order for that to play well with composition of schemas, you may have > to : > - make schemas loose by default > - allow to define strict schemas > - allow to force validation in strict mode (would be loose by default, > except of course for those schemas hard-defined as stricts) > > Some implementation questions : > > - couldn't strict-schema function be defined in terms of loose-schema > function ( just assoc'ing the additional key to the result of calling > loose-schema ?) > - would it be possible to totally "free the data" ? :-), e.g. make it > public that creating a strict schema requires a :clj-schema.schema true > metadata on the vector of paths? > > Cheers, > > -- > Laurent > > > > >> >> Laurent, what keeps you from just using `def-loose-schema`? >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Christophe Grand >> <christo...@cgrand.net>wrote: >> >>> Oh and clj-schema is really something I would use and promote. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Christophe Grand < >>> christo...@cgrand.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> To echo Laurent's concern: if you use schema to validate inputs you get >>>> from another (sub)system then, in my opinion, a loose schema is a better >>>> fit. >>>> It's the must-understand/must-ignore schism once again. >>>> Must-ignore (loose schemas) requires care when revising a schema (since >>>> any piece of data valid under both schemas should not have its semantics >>>> altered) but allows for forward-compatibility and, as such, reduces >>>> coupling. >>>> >>>> Regarding your use-case (validation before storing): I see two >>>> "complected" concerns: ensuring that you don't store bad data and ensuring >>>> that you don't store too much. So, couldn't a loose schema be sued to first >>>> validate the piece of data and then (or at the same time) prune extra keys? >>>> >>>> My two cents, >>>> >>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Alex Baranosky < >>>> alexander.barano...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Laurent, >>>>> >>>>> It was originally written as loose-only, because that is an easier >>>>> problem to solve, but since these schemas are being used at work to make >>>>> sure no bad data gets stored in HBase we decided collectively that >>>>> strictness was more of what we wanted. >>>>> >>>>> I'm open to exploring ways to make the default behavior of defschema >>>>> be loose, perhaps via a binding. I could then create a third macro >>>>> `def-strict-schema`... Let me know if you have any thoughts on approaches >>>>> for this kind of modification. >>>>> >>>>> In general I'm open to ideas that help the library be more useful to >>>>> people for their projects, so please feel free to shoot ideas by me. >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Ambrose Bonnaire-Sergeant < >>>>> abonnaireserge...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think Typed Clojure and clj-schema could work very nicely together. >>>>>> I'll look at it again in a few months. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Ambrose >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Alex Baranosky < >>>>>> alexander.barano...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Stathis, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your interestin clj-schema. If you use it and have any >>>>>>> feedback please let me know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> clj-schema is released under the MIT license: >>>>>>> http://mit-license.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think TypedClojure is really cool. I'm excited about both >>>>>>> approaches because in general I'm very interested in approaches to >>>>>>> coding >>>>>>> that help us ensure that our code works correctly. That said there are >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> interesting differences in the approaches: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - schemas can be used for other things other than validation or >>>>>>> type checking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - schemas are more decoupled from the code. Say you are reading >>>>>>> a map out of a file, or get a map returned from another library. >>>>>>> With >>>>>>> schemas you could easily validate the map. How would that be >>>>>>> handled in a >>>>>>> TypeClojure approach? Also, schema validation only checks at a >>>>>>> snapshot in >>>>>>> time; it makes no effort to ensure that that map is always correct. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - schema validation happens at run-time; TypedClojure is a >>>>>>> static analysis tool. ( Of course, if there was some kind of adapter >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> TypedClojure it could take schemas as params to the type >>>>>>> declarations.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Stathis Sideris >>>>>>> <side...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Alex, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This looks very useful, thanks. What's the license under which you >>>>>>>> are releasing this code? Also, I'm wondering whether something like >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> could be the next step for Typed Clojure. From Ambrose's thesis, I got >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> impression that he would like Typed Clojure to eventually cater for >>>>>>>> checking the contents of maps. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stathis >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, 25 November 2012 23:22:04 UTC, Alex Baranosky wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Clj-schema is a library for defining and validating schemas for >>>>>>>>> maps, as well as for using those schemas to create valid test data. >>>>>>>>> We've >>>>>>>>> been using this in production for at least a few months now, at Runa. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/runa-dev/**clj-schema<https://github.com/runa-dev/clj-schema> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The main benefits I've found from using this library are: >>>>>>>>> * validating the inputs to the application: validating Ring >>>>>>>>> request params and config files >>>>>>>>> * validating before storing maps into the DB >>>>>>>>> * using the clj-schema.fixtures library to create valid test data >>>>>>>>> that stays valid. So as the standard form of a map changes over time >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> tests will stay in sync with those changes automatically. >>>>>>>>> * there are some code-readability benefits as well - any developer >>>>>>>>> can pretty quickly see what certain kinds of maps tend to look like. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's more info in the README: >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/runa-dev/**clj-schema/blob/master/README.**md<https://github.com/runa-dev/clj-schema/blob/master/README.md> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Future possibilities: >>>>>>>>> * auto-generating test data from clj-schema fixtures >>>>>>>>> * being able to create schemas for sets and sequences (currently a >>>>>>>>> schema is always for a map) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Contributors welcome. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient >>>>>>>> with your first post. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient >>>>>>> with your first post. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient >>>>>> with your first post. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient >>>>> with your first post. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On Clojure http://clj-me.cgrand.net/ >>>> Clojure Programming http://clojurebook.com >>>> Training, Consulting & Contracting http://lambdanext.eu/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On Clojure http://clj-me.cgrand.net/ >>> Clojure Programming http://clojurebook.com >>> Training, Consulting & Contracting http://lambdanext.eu/ >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>> your first post. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. 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