A) JVM does not = Java, that's the biggest misunderstanding that pours from
all your posts. Read carefully the text on the page you referenced.
Clojure shares JVM facilities, types, gcc, .... and happens to allow you
to call Java...
B) JVM data types are of two kinds, primitive ones (boolean, char, int, ...) and
complex like classes, interfaces and arrays. The Boolean class is not a JVM
data type, it's a Java creation. The JVM is not aware that this class is
"special",
it's like any other class.
C) Your reference about same values does not stand, you are comparing a Java
value (a Boolean class instance) with a Clojure boolean value which is
represented
by a JVM primitive boolean type.
By which universal law these two things should be considered equal ?
The decision is an implementation choice mainly to allow the unification
of null, nil
and false when testing return values. The less troubesome path was chosen.
Handling of numeric wrapped types like ints as Integer object led to
different decisions. Clojure centric decisions, not based on having
transparent Java
interop.
D) In this context, Clojure interop with the JVM is what makes Java interop
less painfull. It does not imply that Clojure has to stick with Java
conventions
and oddities like Boolean vs the primitive type handling that was patched
in Java
after the fact.
E) Clojure reuses some Java types when fitted and not the other way around,
the String class is a good example.
>
> >
> > But interop is not the main goal in the design of the language...
> >
> > It's a nice feature.
> >
> That's not true. Clojure is a hosted language. Easy interop with the host
> platform is one of the main goals of the language. See
> http://clojure.org/jvm_hosted.
>
> They are not "the same"
>
>
> I've said "same value", not the "same object". If some number equals 1,
> then this number is 1, right? Also, '(1 2 3) and [1 2 3] represents the
> *same* value, although they are backed by the different objects. I believe
> this simple model of values (along with state and identity) is one of the
> key clojure advantages. It's strange for me that equal objects representing
> the *same* value are treated in different ways by clojure. It's the same as
> if (= (map identity [1 2 3]) (map identity (into-array [1 2 3]))) would
> return false.
>
> The Boolean class is not used by Clojure to represent boolean values. It
> > happens
> > that the java false primitive matches the Clojure representation for false.
> > The fact that Java considers the false primitive value to be the same as
> > (Boolean. false) is irrelevant here.
>
>
>
> > The boolean JVM class IS NOT a Clojure type as per Clojure, it's a Java
> > class, nothing more.
>
>
> That's not true. The quote from http://clojure.org/jvm_hosted:
> "Clojure is designed to be a hosted language, sharing the JVM type system"
>
> Anytime you are using directly a class, you quit the Clojure world to
> > dive in Java
>
>
> Clojure string are Java strings. Clojure numbers are Java numbers. So when
> I'm writing (println "boo!") or (inc 1), you'd call it "quit the Clojure
> world to dive in Java"?
>
> This transparency may make you thing that this behaviour is odd but
> > it's an illusion.
>
>
> It's not an illusion. This behaviour is odd, and the existence of this
> topic are the best evidence of this fact.
>
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