On 12/8/2010 4:26 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote:
Hi,
Am 08.12.2010 um 22:06 schrieb Tim Daly:
There are 2 kinds of lisps based on the meaning of a symbol.
Symbols have structure "slots".
And then there is clojure where symbols are just symbols without any slots. When the
compiler encounters a symbol it resolves it to a Var or let local or function argument,
which holds the actual value. So while feeling like a Lisp with "value slot
only"-symbols, Clojure works a little bit differently under the hood.
Sincerely
Meikel
Which is why I did not reply using Clojure.
It is the "little bit differently" that puzzles me.
I still do not have a deep understanding of the
evaluation model in all cases. Which means that
I do not know how to "say" the difference between
lisps in "Clojure semantics".
Lispers have spent dozens of years in debate over
the exact semantics of evaluation and many models
have been developed. One of my primary struggles with
the "Clojure is Lisp" idea is that, in Lisp, the models
are quite clear to me as they have been written up in
great detail. So far I have not seen the same with
Clojure. My only hope in some cases is to read the
source code, but even there I struggle because I don't
have the models. And every time I get close the code
"wanders off into Java".
I'd love to see books for Clojure like "Anatomy of Lisp"
http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Lisp-McGraw-Hill-computer-science/dp/007001115X
or "Lisp In Small Pieces"
http://www.amazon.com/Lisp-Small-Pieces-Christian-Queinnec/dp/0521562473
both of which are, in my opinion, required reading for the serious lisper.
Rich is doing great work and I have learned a lot from his talks,
especially about the immutable issue and identity issue. I am glad
to see someone with fresh thinking on lisp ideas. I just wish the
models were more clearly stated. I want to be able to look at clojure
code and KNOW what byte-code sequence will result. At that point I
can claim to know clojure. Unfortunately, I'm not there yet.
Those coming from the Java/XML background might find this interesting:
http://www.jquigley.com/files/talks/aol.pdf
Tim Daly
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Clojure" group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
