Dimitris,
As a follow-up to Alex’s comments: if you change your lib to extend
the clojure.datafy version, I’ll almost certainly use your library 😊
Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood
*From: *dimitris <mailto:jimpil1...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Friday, January 31, 2020 1:23 PM
*To: *clojure@googlegroups.com <mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Re: Feedback on datafy/nav project
Ok, thanks a million Alex
On 31/01/2020 21:13, Alex Miller wrote:
Datafiable is not special, the guidelines (recently refreshed with
Rich's input at
https://clojure.org/reference/protocols#_guidelines_for_extension)
still make sense, but are still just guidelines for your thinking
not Laws whose breakage will land you in Clojure Jail.
If you want to make protocol extensions for java time objects to
datafiable and put it in a lib, go for it. No one is making anyone
else use it. Maybe some day we'll do that in core, maybe not.
I'm certain that copying Datafiable to your own version however
would lead only to a) confusion and b) a certainty that no one
else would actually use it, and that seems like a waste of time.
On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 1:24:09 PM UTC-6, Jim foo.bar wrote:
I tend to agree with you in where the benefit is - it's just
that the way the protocol docs are phrased, and some of the
language used in that mailing discussion from 10 years ago
(from authoritative sources like Rich and Stuart), implies
that /no library is to extend clojure.core protocols to core
Java objects/, and that only Clojure itself is allowed do
that. The example Stuart gave back then with the
english/spelling-corrector VS spanish/spelling-corrector is
pretty telling...
Could it perhaps be the case that `Datafiable` is somewhat
special in that, it was conceived for the purpose of open
extension by third parties, and that the protocol extension
guidelines don't really apply to it (or perhaps not as strictly)?
Thanks for taking the time :)
Dimitris
On 31/01/2020 01:23, Sean Corfield wrote:
If your library is intended specifically to provide the
ability to datafy/nav java.time objects then it is
something optional that users can choose to opt into.
The section you meant to link to
https://clojure.org/reference/protocols#_guidelines_for_extension
says: “To minimize conflicts, consider these guidelines”
So they’re a) guidelines and b) just given as a caution to
minimize conflicts.
There are libraries out there already that exist
specifically to give users the option to extend protocols
from one library (such as clojure.java.jdbc or next.jdbc)
to Java types to provide customized behavior, above and
beyond the “base versions for common targets” mentioned in
that section provided by the original library.
I see benefit in libraries that extend Clojure’s
datafy/nav to new domains as a narrow purpose that users
can opt into. I see much less benefit in providing the
same protocols and function names that core already
includes, targeted to new types, in an isolated way such
as this. Perhaps that is because I’m already using
datafy/nav and I find their utility is enhanced by being
extended to other Java types?
Yes, if multiple people write multiple libraries A, B, C
that extend datafy/nav to java.time types and then other
libraries X, Y, Z start pulling in those extenders,
consumers of X, Y, Z can be in trouble.
Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood
*From: *dimitris <mailto:jimpil1...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 30, 2020 9:58 AM
*To: *clojure@googlegroups.com
<mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Re: Feedback on datafy/nav project
Well, the official Clojure guidelines are to NOT extend
protocols, unless you own either the protocol of the
type(s) [1].
In particular these lines:
/If you are a library developer, you should not extend if
you own neither the protocol nor the target./
/You should take particular care when extending protocols
included with Clojure itself./
Kind regards,
Dimitris
[1]:
https://clojure.org/reference/protocols#_extend_via_metadata
On 30/01/2020 17:50, Sean Corfield wrote:
Is there a reason you’ve mirrored those
protocols/implementations rather than just use
Clojure’s built-in versions?
As it stands, your library wouldn’t work with other
tooling that builds on Clojure’s datafy/nav (REBL, for
example).
Sean Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really
alive."
-- Margaret Atwood
*From: *dimitris <mailto:jimpil1...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 30, 2020 9:05 AM
*To: *Clojure <mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Feedback on datafy/nav project
Hi folks,
I'm looking for honest and constructive feedback on
[1] - not so much
about the actual implementation (even though these are
welcome too), but
rather about the general idea of basing everything on
top of (mirrored
versions) `datafy` and `nav` (in this way). There is a
TL;DR section at
the very bottom that describes the approach in 4 short
sentences.
Many thanks in advance,
Dimitris
[1]: https://github.com/jimpil/jedi-time
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