thanks for the encouragement. As for eclipse, I just don't get the same feeling. I love the cntl- space and cntl-\ things that stub out your code (not just for dot completion). . . complete with cells for variables that repeat in the template (yeah they probably took this from emacs, but I can add more templates using a GUI or an xml file . . . .dirt simple). Awesome. I mean, people talk about how easy python is, right? For an OO person, python should be nice and gentle. Well, until I got PyDev for eclipse I wasn't into it at all. NOW (and only now), it's awesome. It's an awesome language BECAUSE there's an eclipse plugin for it. When I forget what something is, I hold down cntl, which turns it into a hyperlink, I click on it, and it follows me to the definition. Who cares where that is. I hit the back button and I'm back where I was.
There's a big difference for me between an IDE and an editor. I cant remember. Besides J, was it clean that comes with it's own IDE? http://clean.cs.ru.nl/About_Clean/body_the_clean_ide/body_the_clean_ide.htm . . . . swi-prolog has a page talking about IDE's, but seem to have the same problem of pointing folks a bunch of directions to try a bunch of things that may or may not work . . . and vary from system to system . . .and may or may not come with GUI-based version control clients. Thanks for the information on jEdit, too. I'll check it out and Netbeans (enclojure?), too, though I'd hate to have to install the monstrosity that is Netbeans just to work with clojure. Oh, I get it! Yeah, if clojure is your only language, then eclipse could be seen as insane. But no, because, no doubt you'll want source control and other team development tools and the stuff I mentioned above. Yeah, it needs a lot of memory . . . because it's doing a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff I want. It underlines things orange that might not be safe, marks them red if they are just plain wrong . . . even tells you when you have spelling errors in your comments. How is that not cool? Maybe Netbeans does that stuff, too, so if you're using it for everything then, ok. I think it's useful (but correct me if I'm just being negative) to capture some of these impressions. I know I'll have a tough incline convincing my coworkers to make this our next language. If I fail due to the IDE issue it may be interesting to know that I may end up visiting F# on the dark side. It actually has some concurrency built in (transparently, I think?), and, I'm sure will come with an IDE. Then again, it won't be free (another I'm hoping this is couched as feedback and not as complaint. It's great to see progress in languages). On Jan 10, 4:28 pm, Luc Prefontaine <lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca> wrote: > Try this: > > http://github.com/djspiewak/jedit-modes/tree/master/clojure.xml > > I work with Eclipse on a daily basis because of the java code base I > have to deal with but it was > asking my computer to carry an elephant until... I got my hands on a > quad-core with 6 Gig of RAM > and I had loaded in RAM at boot time all the tools I use regularly. > > Eclipse is useful to java because of all the bureaucratic configuration > you need to create a Java app with > almost every framework (I use Spring). You need wizards to create stuff, > heavy validation tools to keep your code and > XML configurations in sych, an integrated Java debugger, ... > > I started to work with Clojure in fall and used Scite after adding a > Clojure mode to it by cloning the lisp mode > and making mods to it. Later I tried Vim and JEdit also. > > I started using Emacs 3 weeks ago just to refresh my memory (I was using > Emacs in the mid-80s). > > I do not use SLIME, just a separate REPL and I reload code when I update > a file or just cut & paste in the terminal window. > Whether you use Emacs or another language sensitive editor does not make > a huge difference. > SLIME is a nice add-on but it may be confusing and there still a couple > of issues to fix about the SLIME Clojure mode. > I tried it but tossed it away for a couple of months by necessity, I > will come back to it when it will have matured a bit. > > I do not see any need for Eclipse to code in Clojure since the amount of > code written compare to Java is > much more smaller. Eclipse for Clojure is like using a dead blow mallet > to hang a picture. > > A light language sensitive editor is what you need to track all these > parenthesis :))) > For debugging I am happy with JSWat but I do not need it very often. > The core of the learning curve is to understand the functional language > concepts and how Clojure implements > these concepts plus the ones specific to Clojure, not the syntax. > > I walked this learning curve while coding in Clojure for a system that > will be in production next Monday and all of that without > Eclipse... I am old, my brains have burned a lot of cells along the way > and I am not as fast as I used > to be when I started programming :))) so if I can do it, I expect that > others can do so... > > For me Eclipse is like getting a wheeled walker, that's the step just > before my own death, I use it when > there's not other choice than crawling inch by inch :)))) > > Luc > > On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 12:35 -0800, e wrote: > > i wondered about this when I was asking about eclipse analogies. The > > vm that runs a program that you are writing should have nothing to do > > with the vm your editor is using. Maybe there should be some way for > > the actual running program to be in one VM, and then the REPL > > communicates to it via RMI. I know Rich talks about a new model for > > distributed concurrency ... seems like the whole program should > > optionally run in such a distributed (interprocess) thread. RMI, xml > > rpc, jms. Then one thing running out of memory has nothing to do with > > the other. > > > on another aside that is mostly a rant ... totally ignorable, and not > > directly on topic: > > Nobody ever dings clojure, and I can't because I don't know it. I'm > > excited to (attempt to) learn it despite the fact that one major thing > > I was looking for in a new language is one that starts it's design > > thinking about the IDE . . . .actually building an IDE and letting the > > language follow in test-driven manner. Zero configuration. J > > somewhat seems like that, though I don't know if it started like that, > > but there isn't any syntax highlighting. Like, I don't really program > > in Java. I program in Eclipse . . . which assists me in writing > > java. Maybe I just think an IDE should have a GUI builder, project > > manager, version control, reviewing and markup (collaboration), wiki, > > milestone calendar, doc-builder that ties code to the docs, debugging, > > packaging, obfuscating, etc. You download language x. You run the > > launcher for language x. An IDE pops up. As you code, the IDE has > > some sort of "build" or "deliver" button, nevermind the REPL part that > > is useful during development ... that makes something you can give to > > a user. That sort of thing is what makes a language accessible to the > > masses. Is there a discussion group of project underway to make a > > dedicated IDE or Eclipse plugin for clojure? And ..... it's asking a > > lot to ask the next generation to make emacs their friend. It seems > > like that's what I'll need to do for now with clojure, right? And I > > wont have dot completion, I'm thinking even for java stuff (the main > > place I see dots). I guess what I am saying is that I actually pick > > the language based on the editor. I pick java over c# because I enjoy > > Eclipse way more than every time I've had to try to use visual studio > > (although that seems to finally be getting a little better). Maybe we > > at least need a jEdit plugin for clojure. > > > On Jan 10, 3:03 pm, Paul Mooser <taron...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > After talking to Jeffrey Chu, it seems like what is actually happening > > > is possibly fairly obvious (in retrospect) - the java process runs out > > > of heap space, and there's not even enough memory to keep swank- > > > clojure working properly. Jeffrey tried some examples with just a > > > plain REPL (without SLIME), and managed to get a dead REPL after > > > causing an out of memory error, so there may be more fundamental lower > > > level things going on, and it's not clear that this can really be > > > addressed on the SLIME side. > > > > I'm not sure what a good solution to this problem would be, but I > > > thought I'd post an update for anyone who was curious what the actual > > > issue was. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
