On Nov 12, 2008, at 14:52, David wrote:

> That's why I put my "syntax" in quotes. From my chair having almost no
> syntax is a non-issue. I'd trade in syntax smallness for readability
> any time.

Taste and personal preference aside, one can ask the question what  
you get and what you lose by choosing "readability" or "regular  
syntax". A feature that you get with Lisp's minimal syntax, and which  
is often overlooked or underestimated, is simple yet powerful  
metaprogramming through macros. Compare Lisp to any other  
metaprogramming language (C++ templates, Template Haskell,  
MetaOCaml, ...) and you will quickly notice that Lisp macros are  
simplicity itself.

> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't implying that having IDEs is the
> only factor in making it in the real world. I'm just saying that not
> having them doesn't improve the odds.

IDEs are very much a matter of personal preference. Having one is not  
enough to make an impact, what you need is support by many different  
IDEs. I don't know any language that had this from the start, so I  
doubt it ever made a difference to language acceptance.

Konrad.


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