On Sep 4, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
What about Unlawful requests?
You need not comply, and if you do, you could be breaking the law.
For example, suppose someone went to oh say ATT with out a Warrent
and demanded they tap say most phones on their network?
NSL is the case where someone could ask for something, but wiretaps
are something else. NSL is typically "who is the subscriber".
Or let's say that someone from an alphabet soup organization taps
you on the shoulder and demands access to your traffic for some sort
of automated filtering?
I know a few of those types and they have never asked for or even
talked around that sort of thing.
Thankfully I don't work in an environment where this would ever
come up but this was more of a thought experiment. I've worked in a
few provider networks where law enforcement requests have come up
but the requests always made sense along with the proper paper work
accompanying them and honestly I've never first hand observed the
type of wide scale monitoring that's been reported but the idea of
the thing gives me the shivers. I'm sorry if this is off topic I'll
drop the thread if it is but since CALEA was mentioned I was really
curious why people bought in to it in the first place.
Calea was originally to cover the changeover of pstn to digital
switches so they can track drug dealers, et al. While it also applies
to "broadband" networks, Its not something you are likely to see. You
can talk to the (i swear they are nice) CALEA Implementation unit
about what you need. They are nice guys and there is no penalty for
non-compliance unless you get a lawful request and are unable to
comply. Then the FCC gets involved and you could be fined.
Your best bet is to actually be social with your local FBI, Secret
Service & Police. Tell them who you are, what you do, and when
something comes up it wont seem like jackboot thugs :).
Websites/things to google: askcalea.net, infragard.net
- Jared
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Mauch" <[email protected]
>
To: "Scott Granados" <[email protected]>
Cc: "david raistrick" <[email protected]>; "jp" <[email protected]
>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] CALEA was Re: OT - Dark Fiber
Talk to your counsel about the compliance requests you get. You may
be able to get away without it, but you are required to comply with
any lawful requests, even if you don't like them. The same is true
for any business where you could get a lawful request for records.
Check out packetforensics if you need a device, much cheaper than
others in the space, their website can be a bit funny, but worth
having a [free] login.
- Jared
On Sep 4, 2009, at 4:07 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
Why does anyone comply with CALEA? Especially after the abuses
of the last 8 years and probably a lot farther back than that?
I've been reading about the requirements and the idea that ISPs
cooperate with law enforcement really makes me uneasy on a civil
liberties basis. Does Uncle Sam scare tactic people in to
compliance? There's just something about making things easier
for the NSA and any number of alphabet soup agencies that strikes
me as unamerican (to use their own phrase against them) and
wrong. Or was it created simply to create a new space for
security products and C, J and the others were really good at
lobbying?
Since it doesn't require the ISP to break open encrypted traffic
it almost makes me think a public key system that lets the end
user encrypt everything from phone to television with their own
keys makes some sense so there's nothing left in the clear for
entertaining the James Bond crowd! Probably not practical at all
but this thread just convinced me not to use split tunneling.;)
----- Original Message ----- From: "david raistrick" <[email protected]
>
To: "jp" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [c-nsp] OT - Dark Fiber
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009, jp wrote:
Regarding the topic... If someone provides dark fiber, would
they be
subject to CALEA requirements to be able to tap and record the
I haven't followed CALEA-for-ISPs for a few years, but at least
when it was initially required, dark fiber providers won't need
to comply with CALEA. They're not providing network service. -
lit- fiber providers would because they're either providing
network or telecom service....but they generally wouldn't do it
at the physical layer.
...david
--
david raistrick http://www.netmeister.org/news/
learn2quote.html
[email protected] http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
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