From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Cinelerra digest, Vol 1 #1700 - 7 msgs
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:38:43 +0200
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: High Definition Input (Dan Streetman)
2. again, interlacing, p.s. (Kurt Georg Hooss)
3. Re: my cinelerra involvement (Alexis Ballier)
4. again, interlacing (Kurt Georg Hooss)
5. again, interlacing (Kurt Georg Hooss)
6. Build System enhancements finished (Christian Thaeter)
7. Re: again, interlacing (Jonas Wulff)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:52:35 -0400
From: "Dan Streetman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] High Definition Input
Reply-To: [email protected]
Hmm, looks like adding the patch made the email too big for the
mailing list. So, the patch is on the sourceforge kino patches page.
See email below for details.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1703694&group_id=14103&atid=314103
On 4/19/07, Dan Streetman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just sent an updated dvgrab patch to the kino-dev mailing list,
> which is much improved. Since there is interest on this list too,
> I'll attach a (bzip'ed) version here since everyone may not be on the
> kino-dev list. Apply the same as before of course. See --help for
> new options, specifically --hdv and --format mpeg2 are of interest.
> Also I added --showstatus because I like seeing exactly what's going
> on during capture...
>
> If anyone tries this with a non-Sony camera, please let me know if it
> does or doesn't work...and, if I could get some non-Sony HD sample
> clips, I would appreciate it...I pull the timecode, recording date,
> and scene change info out of a non-standard mpeg2 extension (i.e. Sony
> extension) so I'd like to see how other manufacturers put that info
> in.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On 4/16/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm using the hdv patch from kdenlive
> > http://kdenlive.org/hdv.php
> > To apply the patch Download cvs dvgrab 2.x copy the patch to that
directory
> > and do:
> > patch -i <whatever the name of the patch is.patch
> > then build as normal.
> > To use the patch if you type dvgrab --help you will notice there is a
new
> > option mpeg2 . Thats the hdv patch.
> > capture by using dvgrab --mpeg2
> > I'm using a sony hcr3
> >
> > Using test-mpeg2 I did not get avc control and got it working by
running:
> > test-mpeg2 | dvcont play
> >
> > Alas current cinelerra-cvs still has playback bug unresolved
rendering 2
> > fps playback.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > Daniel Jircik
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 4:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CinCVS] High Definition Input
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 2007-15-04 at 22:56 +0200, Herman Robak wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2007-04-15 at 14:48 -0400, Fred Williams wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 2007-15-04 at 14:50 +0200, Herman Robak wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > There are three ways:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) mpg1394grab, which is distributed as a single file of C
source
> > code.
> > > >
> > > > No idea how to install this, unfortunately
> > >
> > > It's rather obscure, and quite deprecated since libiec61883 came
> > > around. I have mirrored the single C source file here:
> > > http://www.nuug.no/pub/herman/mpg1394grab.c
> > >
> > > It must be linked with libraw1394
> > >
> > That's the part I don't know how to do.
> >
> > >
> > > > > 2) test-mpeg2, which is found in the _source_ package for
libiec61883
> > > > > (available in Ubuntu's repositories)
> > > >
> > > > Synaptic says the libiec61883 library is installed, but I presume
this
> > > > is terminal stuff. When I type "test-mpeg2 -h" in, it's an
> > > > unrecognizable command.
> > >
> > > Not part of the binary package. It's one of the "examples" in the
> > > source package. You can install and build that. Not much to it. :-)
> > >
> > If you know how. (;-)) I used to work in computers, but it was a long
> > time ago and in FORTRAN IV.
> >
> > >
> > > > > 3) A patched version of dvgrab. This is apparently the most
robust
> > > > > alternative, as it does proper buffering.
> > > > >
> > > > I found the patch online, but have no idea how to install it.
> > >
> > > Nor do I. About time to suggest the patch to the developers of
> > > dvgrab, or create a hdvgrab "fork".
> > >
> > Good idea. Or, an upgrade to Kino, or the Cinelerra poeple could add
> > it with the DV capability when they get around to it.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cinelerra mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and
industry-leading
> > spam and email virus protection.
> >
>
>
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: Kurt Georg Hooss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Schoepfung & Wandel wissenschaftliche Medienberatung
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:37:57 +0200
Subject: [CinCVS] again, interlacing, p.s.
Reply-To: [email protected]
i forgot to mention my versions:
cinelerra 2.1 cv, suse 10.2 package, build date 2007-01-16, 07:55:18 utc.
tovid 0.29 on the same machine (p4 laptop, suse 10.2).
georg
--
dr.k.g.hooss
wissenschaftliche medienberatung
tel. +49-(0)451-3003-474
www.schoepfung-und-wandel.de
--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:08:32 +0200
From: Alexis Ballier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] my cinelerra involvement
Organization: Gentoo
Reply-To: [email protected]
--Signature=_Thu__19_Apr_2007_16_08_32_+0200_8ufuoi2F/5z25UM+
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Hi,
> I've just finished writing a patch to add full HDV read support to
> dvgrab and am about to send that off to their mailing list, so my next
> project was going to be working some more on cinelerra, since I use it
> exclusively for video editing...so, I'll be glad to help as much as I
> can. Probably not at a super fast pace, but I can provide some help.
> I was planning next on adding direct support for reading files with
> ffmpeg (libavcodec/libavformat).
this sounds very interesting. I'll be glad to help on that also.
there are a few other things I'd like to improve :
- libquicktime support (not as easy as it seems to be imho)
- ffmpeg swscale support (i had submitted the patches)
- perhaps using system toolame rather than rebuilding it
- cinelerra contains some executables stacks, I had tracked it to the
way images are packed in the executable in guicast but didn't fix them
- cinelerra contains text relocations on x86 when compiled with mmx in
libmpeg3 iirc, I have some patches against libmpeg3 asm, I could
contact the author to see if he wants this to be integrated here (of
course removing the need for textrels usually makes the asm slower so it
is only acceptable with a "notextrel" option)
Anyway, since cinelerra is my favorite soft for video editing I'd like
to help you by contributing a bit more, perhaps starting by trying to
track the bugs you mentioned. The only problem being I don't have as
much time as I'd like to to play with video, but that's life ;)
Regards,
Alexis
--Signature=_Thu__19_Apr_2007_16_08_32_+0200_8ufuoi2F/5z25UM+
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--__--__--
Message: 4
From: Kurt Georg Hooss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Schoepfung & Wandel wissenschaftliche Medienberatung
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:34:40 +0200
Subject: [CinCVS] again, interlacing
Reply-To: [email protected]
--Boundary-01=_go5JG33/GtuC1Ac
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hi folks,
maybe not a cinelerra problem in the strictest sense,
however maybe someone here can hint me where to look.
i have made a movie on dvd using kino (for grabbing),
cinelerra (for editing and rendering to q4l.mov),
tovid (for converting to dvd-compatible .mpg), and dvdauthor.
when watching the results on the computer screen,
there were the typical comb-like artifacts in horizontal movements,
which actually did not really disturb me.
however when watching the movie on a dvd player / tv screen,
then all horizontal movements show such an intense flickering
that it really gives me a headache, also with strong comb effects.
the only sensible explanation seems that the fields are played
in reverse order, i.e. say if the camera records top fields first,
then the player shows bottom fields first, or vice versa.
to find out, i have experimented with the "format" settings in cinelerra
and rendered four versions of a little test scene, each time starting
cinelerra from scratch, setting the format, loading footage, rendering:
1. Preset "PAL" (interlace mode goes automatically to "bottom fields
first"),
2. then changed interlace mode to "none", without changing anything else,
3. and to "top fields first",
4. and finally with preset "PAL Progressive" (50 fps).
I have then converted these four test movies (tovid -pal -dvd ...)
and combined them onto a test dvd (todisc -pal -dvd ...). but when playing
on the dvd player + tv, all four looked the same, horribly flickering.
so maybe it is not so much a problem with rendering in cinelerra,
but with interlacing (and possibly swapping fields) in tovid, i don't know.
anyone here who had any similar experiences?
tovid -interlace did not work, or yes it made the machine work for some
time
but then no output was delivered, all temp files deleted and no end result.
quite annoying, maybe that was the effect i need, how can i know...
(i have also tried tovid -deinterlace, but astonishingly, the image
was cropped so the entire right half of the image was black
and also some black bar on the left. clearly not the intended result...)
thanks for any kind of advice.
georg
--
dr.k.g.hooss
wissenschaftliche medienberatung
tel. +49-(0)451-3003-474
www.schoepfung-und-wandel.de
--Boundary-01=_go5JG33/GtuC1Ac
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<html><head><meta name="qrichtext" content="1" /></head><body
style="font-size:6pt;font-family:Trebuchet MS">
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">hi folks,</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">maybe not a cinelerra problem in the
strictest sense,</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">however maybe someone here can hint me where
to look.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">i have made a movie on dvd using kino (for
grabbing),</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000"> cinelerra (for editing and rendering to
q4l.mov),</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000"> tovid (for converting to dvd-compatible
.mpg), and dvdauthor.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">when watching the results on the computer
screen,</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">there were the typical comb-like artifacts
in horizontal movements,</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">which actually did not really disturb
me.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">however when watching the movie on a dvd
player / tv screen,</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">then all horizontal movements show such an
intense flickering</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">that it really gives me a headache, also
with strong comb effects.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">the only sensible explanation seems that the
fields are played</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">in reverse order, i.e. say if the camera
records top fields first,</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">then the player shows bottom fields first,
or vice versa.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">to find out, i have experimented with the
"format" settings in cinelerra</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">and rendered four versions of a little test
scene, each time starting</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000"> cinelerra from scratch, setting the format,
loading footage, rendering:</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">1. Preset "PAL" (interlace mode
goes automatically to "bottom fields first"),</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">2. then changed interlace mode to
"none", without changing anything else,</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">3. and to "top fields
first",</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">4. and finally with preset "PAL
Progressive" (50 fps).</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">I have then converted these four test movies
(tovid -pal -dvd ...)</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">and combined them onto a test dvd
(</span>todisc -pal -dvd ...). but when playing</p>
<p>on the dvd player + tv, all four looked the same, horribly
flickering.</p>
<p></p>
<p>so maybe it is not so much a problem with rendering in cinelerra,</p>
<p>but with interlacing (and possibly swapping fields) in tovid, i don't
know.</p>
<p>anyone here who had any similar experiences?</p>
<p></p>
<p>tovid -interlace did not work, or yes it made the machine work for some
time</p>
<p>but then no output was delivered, all temp files deleted and no end
result.</p>
<p>quite annoying, maybe that was the effect i need, how can i know...</p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">(i have also tried tovid -deinterlace, but
astonishingly, the image</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000"> was cropped so the entire right half of the
image was black</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000"> and also some black bar on the left.
clearly not the intended result...)</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">thanks for any kind of advice.</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">georg</span></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">-- </span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">dr.k.g.hooss</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">wissenschaftliche medienberatung</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">tel. +49-(0)451-3003-474</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#000000">www.schoepfung-und-wandel.de</span></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
</body></html>
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--__--__--
Message: 5
From: Kurt Georg Hooss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Schoepfung & Wandel wissenschaftliche Medienberatung
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:59:17 +0200
Subject: [CinCVS] again, interlacing
Reply-To: [email protected]
strange seems as if i got only my p.s. back from the list,
but not the original message. so o.k. i try again,
here it comes:
hi folks,
maybe not a cinelerra problem in the strictest sense,
however maybe someone here can hint me where to look.
i have made a movie on dvd using kino (for grabbing),
cinelerra (for editing and rendering to q4l.mov),
tovid (for converting to dvd-compatible .mpg), and dvdauthor.
when watching the results on the computer screen,
there were the typical comb-like artifacts in horizontal movements,
which actually did not really disturb me.
however when watching the movie on a dvd player / tv screen,
then all horizontal movements show such an intense flickering
that it really gives me a headache, also with strong comb effects.
the only sensible explanation seems that the fields are played
in reverse order, i.e. say if the camera records top fields first,
then the player shows bottom fields first, or vice versa.
to find out, i have experimented with the "format" settings in cinelerra
and rendered four versions of a little test scene, each time starting
cinelerra from scratch, setting the format, loading footage, rendering:
1. Preset "PAL" (interlace mode goes automatically to "bottom fields
first"),
2. then changed interlace mode to "none", without changing anything else,
3. and to "top fields first",
4. and finally with preset "PAL Progressive" (50 fps).
I have then converted these four test movies (tovid -pal -dvd ...)
and combined them onto a test dvd (todisc -pal -dvd ...). but when playing
on the dvd player + tv, all four looked the same, horribly flickering.
so maybe it is not so much a problem with rendering in cinelerra,
but with interlacing (and possibly swapping fields) in tovid, i don't know.
anyone here who had any similar experiences?
tovid -interlace did not work, or yes it made the machine work for some
time
but then no output was delivered, all temp files deleted and no end result.
quite annoying, maybe that was the effect i need, how can i know...
(i have also tried tovid -deinterlace, but astonishingly, the image
was cropped so the entire right half of the image was black
and also some black bar on the left. clearly not the intended result...)
thanks for any kind of advice.
georg
--
dr.k.g.hooss
wissenschaftliche medienberatung
tel. +49-(0)451-3003-474
www.schoepfung-und-wandel.de
--__--__--
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:16:47 +0200
From: Christian Thaeter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [CinCVS] Build System enhancements finished
Reply-To: [email protected]
The build system enhancements I proprosed some time ago is finished now.
Here are some pragmatic (quite unrepresentative/inaccurate, due cpufreq
and loaded machines) benchmarks:
Setup:
I disable ccache for all of this benchmarks, distcc is used as noted.
The compiler commandlines still always use the 'ccache distcc' prefix.
The tests are run on my laptop (slow encrypted disk) and all other hosts
are connected via WLan.
CC=ccache distcc g++-4.1
CXX=ccache distcc g++-4.1
CCACHE_DISABLE=true
$ rm * -rf
$ ../configure --program-suffix=_flatam --with-external-ffmpeg
1. old build system using SUBDIRS
1.1. using distcc over all machines here
DISTCC_HOSTS="10.20.20.20/2,lzo 10.20.60.10/3,lzo 10.20.10.40/1,lzo \
10.20.50.10/2,lzo"
Note: my laptop is already loaded with preprocessing and feeding the
cluster, there is no compilation on localhost.
1.1.1 full rebuild
$ time make -j 9
...
real 6m12.913s
user 1m40.237s
sys 0m32.071s
1.1.2. rebuild with few files in cinelerra touched
$ touch ../cinelerra/cache.*
$ time make -j 9
...
real 1m11.398s
user 0m29.755s
sys 0m6.763s
1.1.3. rebuild with a plugin touched
$ touch ../plugins/blur/blur.*
$ time make -j 9
...
real 0m8.623s
user 0m5.966s
sys 0m0.553s
1.2. build sequential no distcc hosts
DISTCC_HOSTS=localhost/1
1.2.1 full rebuild
$ time make
....
real 9m11.694s
user 7m33.710s
sys 0m38.491s
1.2.2. rebuild with few files in cinelerra touched
$ touch ../cinelerra/cache.*
$ time make
...
real 3m7.865s
user 2m39.326s
sys 0m9.649s
1.2.3. rebuild with a plugin touched
$ touch ../plugins/blur/blur.*
$ time make
...
real 0m9.239s
user 0m7.829s
sys 0m0.587s
2. the new build system using included makefiles
2.1. using distcc over all machines here
2.1.1 full rebuild
$ time make -j 9
....
real 3m13.020s
user 1m38.214s
sys 0m31.068s
2.1.2. rebuild with few files in cinelerra touched
$ touch ../cinelerra/cache.*
$ time make -j 9
...
real 1m9.546s
user 0m30.031s
sys 0m6.270s
2.1.3. rebuild with a plugin touched
$ touch ../plugins/blur/blur.*
$ time make -j 9
...
real 0m8.748s
user 0m6.326s
sys 0m0.317s
2.2. build sequential no distcc hosts
DISTCC_HOSTS=localhost/1
2.2.1 full rebuild
$ time make
....
real 9m3.112s
user 7m39.167s
sys 0m37.714s
2.2.2. rebuild with few files in cinelerra touched
$ touch ../cinelerra/cache.*
$ time make
...
real 3m10.850s
user 2m44.649s
sys 0m9.513s
2.2.3. rebuild with a plugin touched
$ touch ../plugins/blur/blur.*
$ time make
...
real 0m9.255s
user 0m8.629s
sys 0m0.323s
Conclusions:
* parallel builds are double as fast (mostly because plugins build
parallel now)
* rebuilds are not that improved like I hoped (maybe I touched the
wrong files) :(
* building on single processor is not improved (that wasn't expected
anyway)
* distcc rocks, but doesn't scale that well maybe perhaps of my wlan or
due the slow HD in my laptop.
* enableing ccache would give another speed boost but isn't useful for
this comparsions.
* Not measured here, but configure is faster since far less Makefiles
are generated.
* So far this is just a minimal translation, there is still room for
improvement.
Whats next:
Some of the issues I mentioned earlier are not yet fixed
* I only did *works-for-me* efforts so far, that is:
+ buildinfo will be unconditionally recreated
+ works only --with-external-ffmpeg (I didnt decided yet if to
keep SUBDIRS for ffmpeg or also to turn it into a include)
+ some (clean..:) targets are commented out
All or some of this work could be merged back into the SVN. There are
some fixes and changes to the sources too (garbled dependencies, path
fixes, libaffine factored out, ...), please review it! I'll prepare a
patch including what we want in SVN on request when we concluded what
shall go in there.
Christian
--__--__--
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:54:53 +0200
From: Jonas Wulff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] again, interlacing
Reply-To: [email protected]
Hi,
I would suggest using 'yuvdeinterlace' to deinterlace your footage
(either after kino or in the cinelerra export chain), its results seem
pretty good to me.
Jonas
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:34:40 +0200
Kurt Georg Hooss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hi folks,
> maybe not a cinelerra problem in the strictest sense,
> however maybe someone here can hint me where to look.
>
> i have made a movie on dvd using kino (for grabbing),
> cinelerra (for editing and rendering to q4l.mov),
> tovid (for converting to dvd-compatible .mpg), and dvdauthor.
>
> when watching the results on the computer screen,
> there were the typical comb-like artifacts in horizontal movements,
> which actually did not really disturb me.
>
> however when watching the movie on a dvd player / tv screen,
> then all horizontal movements show such an intense flickering
> that it really gives me a headache, also with strong comb effects.
>
> the only sensible explanation seems that the fields are played
> in reverse order, i.e. say if the camera records top fields first,
> then the player shows bottom fields first, or vice versa.
>
> to find out, i have experimented with the "format" settings in
> cinelerra and rendered four versions of a little test scene, each
> time starting cinelerra from scratch, setting the format, loading
> footage, rendering:
>
> 1. Preset "PAL" (interlace mode goes automatically to "bottom fields
> first"), 2. then changed interlace mode to "none", without changing
> anything else, 3. and to "top fields first",
> 4. and finally with preset "PAL Progressive" (50 fps).
>
> I have then converted these four test movies (tovid -pal -dvd ...)
> and combined them onto a test dvd (todisc -pal -dvd ...). but when
> playing on the dvd player + tv, all four looked the same, horribly
> flickering.
>
> so maybe it is not so much a problem with rendering in cinelerra,
> but with interlacing (and possibly swapping fields) in tovid, i don't
> know. anyone here who had any similar experiences?
>
> tovid -interlace did not work, or yes it made the machine work for
> some time but then no output was delivered, all temp files deleted
> and no end result. quite annoying, maybe that was the effect i need,
> how can i know...
>
> (i have also tried tovid -deinterlace, but astonishingly, the image
> was cropped so the entire right half of the image was black
> and also some black bar on the left. clearly not the intended
> result...)
>
> thanks for any kind of advice.
> georg
>
>
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