we are not devils. just people like you. history is history. poland was key to europe. now we all live in peace.
On Fri, 2010-10-08 at 21:03 +0200, Jędrzej Nowak wrote: > What the hell are you taliking about? That's a LOGO of a project... > what the hell it has to the "murdered/force-relocated" peoples ? > Mate... first think, then write. I'm from Poland. Yes this is country > which was even removed from the world map (by Germans, and Russians > mostly). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland . Russians > during the world wars killed most of our intelligence, army generals > etc. Do I have something "about" it to the Germans / Russians ? Nope. > There was even http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyfikacja_na_ziemiach_polskich > . So please don't say "shit" about 'coultures' etc. > > Btw. The new OpenSolaris fork is called OpenIndiana => here you have > their mailing lists: > http://openindiana.org/getting-involved/mailing-list/ > > Greetings, > Jędrzej Nowak > > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Zachary Krebs <zkr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I will be posting this thread elsewhere and let the greater FOSS world > > decide on this topic, because its clear that the community here is not open > > to the idea. > > Sincerely, > > > > Zachary Krebs > > > > Voice:(541) 708-1163 > > Skype: ZacharyKrebs > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Max Countryman <m...@me.com> wrote: > >> > >> I would like to second this. At this point it's become spam. The author of > >> this post is effectively trolling by posting off-topic in what seems to be > >> nothing more than an attempt to incite conflict. They ignore rebuttals and > >> carry on with poorly construed pedantic platitudes. The only aim of which > >> can be concluded to be perpetuation of conflict. > >> On Oct 8, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Péter, Donka wrote: > >> > >> Enough of this offtopic spam. You cant do better things but flood a > >> technical mailing list this foolish thing? Man.. this is awful! > >> > >> 2010.10.08. 19:39 keltezéssel, Zachary Krebs írta: > >> > >> Its not destructive to say that the branding of a particular GOOD product > >> is culturally insensitive. If all you care about is the code, and how the > >> product works, then why is this such a big issue that can not be reflected > >> on? Instead of silencing the issue, we should review it and see if there is > >> anything we can do to make a win-win. Its easy to move on and ignore such > >> things, but there is now a pattern of web-server products using this kind > >> of > >> consciousness. Its constructive to point out that perhaps you, and perhaps > >> the people involved in the project have not fully considered the > >> implications of their actions. Or rather, you do not choose to look at them > >> because you do not value the perspective that it could be considered > >> offensive to someone. Being sensitive to how other people think/feel means > >> forgoing your own logical ability for a moment, and understanding their > >> place. Obviously the product does not make any reference to the cultural > >> heritage of the Cherokee people. Then, logically, there is no need to > >> represent the people by using their name or a caricature of their people? > >> If > >> you ignore this logic, then there might be a flaw in the whole concept of > >> using "logic" to streamroll through these issues. > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> Zachary Krebs > >> > >> Voice:(541) 708-1163 > >> Skype: ZacharyKrebs > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Max Countryman <m...@me.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> I would strongly suggest you concentrate your efforts on constructive > >>> rather than destructive activities. > >>> Had the Cherokee Webserver Project made claims about the cultural > >>> identity of the Cherokee People I think you would have some ground to > >>> stand > >>> on. But they don't, never have, and most likely never will. You're trying > >>> to > >>> create an issue where there isn't one, choosing to take offense to > >>> something > >>> in illogical way by using logical fallacies and misleading > >>> rationalizations. > >>> Finally you want to appeal to the community to experience how you feel, > >>> to consider your emotional response. I'm sorry to say: only you can make > >>> the > >>> choice to react to something, you have only yourself to hold accountable, > >>> no > >>> one else. > >>> > >>> On Oct 8, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Zachary Krebs wrote: > >>> > >>> I can see that there is very little receptivity around this topic. That > >>> is fine. I would suggest that instead of using your brain like a hammer to > >>> approach every issue, consider how this might feel to someone. As we have > >>> also learned, the mind is not the only source of intelligence. Looking at > >>> things with open perceptive lenses, we can see faults and correct them, > >>> without defending our actions. Its easy to twist logic to support > >>> something, > >>> but its harder to understand and trust others. > >>> Sincerely, > >>> > >>> Zachary Krebs > >>> > >>> Voice:(541) 708-1163 > >>> Skype: ZacharyKrebs > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Max Countryman <m...@me.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I think your accusations are a bit of a red herring: As we have well > >>>> learned by now, a symbol is not the object it represents. However you're > >>>> attempting to assert the representation is the object and is therefore > >>>> objectionable, this is a logical fallacy. > >>>> If you care about the history of native peoples, spend your time and > >>>> energy enriching that culture rather than detracting from relatively > >>>> unrelated software projects which neither detract from nor otherwise > >>>> frame > >>>> native ethnography. > >>>> On Oct 8, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Zachary Krebs wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Please consider removing it or changing it. For some context, there is a > >>>> huge dispute in N. America about people using Native American > >>>> symbols/logos/caricatures in popular culture to demean or otherwise > >>>> insinuate that indigenous people are fast, quirky, half-witted, > >>>> lesser-than, > >>>> etc. The entire idea of naming web servers after Native People (for no > >>>> reason) and then having logos from their cultural background makes little > >>>> sense. Perhaps you could consider redesigning your logo to use something > >>>> other than a caricature of a person? Also posted this to the Hiawatha > >>>> forum, > >>>> which has a similar issue. > >>>> http://www.hiawatha-webserver.org/forum/topic/686 > >>>> > >>>> Sincerely, > >>>> > >>>> Zachary Krebs > >>>> > >>>> Voice:(541) 708-1163 > >>>> Skype: ZacharyKrebs > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Cherokee mailing list > >>>> Cherokee@lists.octality.com > >>>> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Cherokee mailing list > >>>> Cherokee@lists.octality.com > >>>> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Cherokee mailing list > >>> Cherokee@lists.octality.com > >>> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cherokee mailing list > >> Cherokee@lists.octality.com > >> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee > >> > >> -- > >> Üdvözlettel > >> Donka Péter > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cherokee mailing list > >> Cherokee@lists.octality.com > >> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cherokee mailing list > >> Cherokee@lists.octality.com > >> http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cherokee mailing list > > Cherokee@lists.octality.com > > http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cherokee mailing list > Cherokee@lists.octality.com > http://lists.octality.com/listinfo/cherokee -- Vladimir Smagin http://blindage.org http://acer-e110.net
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