Hi Luca,
> On Dec 9, 2021, at 18:38, Luca Muscariello <muscarie...@ieee.org> wrote: > > Hi Sebastian > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 17:09 Sebastian Moeller <moell...@gmx.de> wrote: > Hi Luca > > > On Dec 3, 2021, at 15:58, Luca Muscariello <muscarie...@ieee.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 3:35 PM Sebastian Moeller <moell...@gmx.de> wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2021, at 15:18, Dave Taht <dave.t...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 4:00 AM Luca Muscariello <muscarie...@ieee.org> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Test using a tp-link AP EAP 245 > > >> > > >> https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=bbcc5ef5-e677-4f27-aa04-1849db81d0f5 > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > A kvetch is that I really wish they also tested up and down at the same > > > time. > > > > > > Another kvetch is I think the test needs to run longer at these speeds. > > > > > > Another another kvetch is they factor in baseline latency to determine > > > if the link is suitable for gaming or not. > > > > Which is the sane thing to do... IMHO. For any "twitch"-type > > reation-time gated gaming all players need to be in an acceptable range of > > "RTTs" to and from the server so that all perceive the world similarly and > > nobody has an unfair advantage/disadvantage, so absolute RTT does seem to > > matter. I would agree that jitter is nastier in that is will cause > > "randomish" variations of the RTT, but then the known solution against > > jitter is additional buffering (large enough to simply even out the unequal > > jittered packet arrival times) which in turn just increases the "RTT", no? > > (I guess no game really does this enough, so jitter stays the constant > > problem for internet game-play). > > > > > > > Mobile multiplayer competitive games, like PvP, 5v5 such as CoDM, Critical > > Ops, LoL Wild Rift may have very different ways to face/conceal network > > conditions based on the experience the studio wants to offer to the gamer. > > Care to elaborate, please? As far as I can tell what I describe above > is pretty universal iff fair "coordination" between different player's > actions is required. How do you conceal issues about causal ordering of > events that ideally are identical from all perspectives? > > Not all games use deterministic lockstep because it requires to compensate > latency from the different players. Of course if latency is zero it is > easier. But that assumption or that objective is one of the fallacies of > distributed computing. > > Predictive lockstep or even rollback netcode are examples where you fix > update accuracy reactively. Ah, sure, I was talking core principle not implementation. I fully agree that predictive/speculative techniques help to make the causality problems of different information propagation delays appear less often. In retrospect that is what "conceal network conditions" alstready covered ;) > Beyond specific netcode techniques, some mobile games can give you the > illusion that you're playing PvP while at some point reality is that you can > continue to play almost offline against bots. I don't want to sound harsh, but that feels like "cheating". > > There are games where physics inaccuracies can be concealed. Physics is very > important for first person shooter games while an ARPG may conceal > inaccuracies in the middle of the mess that is rendered on screen, think of > League of Legends Wild Rift. Ah, okay. Didn't know at all about the last two ;) Thanks! Regards Sebastan > > > > Regards > Sebastian > > > > > > > > > > > We had them participating on this list at some point.... > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 7:48 PM Dave Taht <dave.t...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> tp-link, is, so far as I know, the last major home router vendor NOT > > >>> shipping a SQM system. Perhaps this could be modded up with someones > > >>> with accounts? > > >>> > > >>> https://community.tp-link.com/us/home/forum/topic/511156 > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> I tried to build a better future, a few times: > > >>> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org > > >>> > > >>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Bloat mailing list > > >>> bl...@lists.bufferbloat.net > > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > I tried to build a better future, a few times: > > > https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org > > > > > > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > > > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel _______________________________________________ Cerowrt-devel mailing list Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
