On 30-04-2025 22:16, Maged Mokhtar wrote:
This is strange indeed..
1) I recommend to first make sure/validate that all active backfilling
as well as in the backfill_wait are indeed/mainly from pool 11
ceph pg ls backfilling
ceph pg ls backfill_wait
This is to find out if some other pools are causing this slow backfill
actiivity. Specially you have 3 EC pools with size 9, the high size tend
to have low active backfill counts (and scrub counts). Notice that the
number of backfill_wait is larger than 8192, so something else is involved.
I had drained a faulty disk and replaced it with a new one prior to
increasing the number of PGs so that would probably account for the
additional misplaced.
All active backfills are pool 11 but some of the ones in backfill_wait
are from pool 37, which is EC 4+5.
Pool ID 11: 3365 PGs
Pool ID 37: 8 PGs
Pool ID 6: 1 PGs
2) As recommended by earlier post, i would increase osd_max_backfills to
3 or more. As noted above EC with larger k+m size will benefit from
this. I understand you have concerns on stressing the drives, so first
increase the osd_recovery_sleep to 1 (a high value) to offset the larger
backfills, and it is better to monitor with iostat -dxt 5 to make sure
the disk %util/busy is not too high (above 80%) then you can adjust the
above 2 values while monitoring iostat.
Not so much worried about strain on the drives as worried about hitting
full. What we have seen in the past is small drives and large PGs
causing full events with multiple backfills because the mechanism is
rather stupid.
We might have drives at 80% utilization, then we add more drives to
decrease the utilization but that initially assign more PGs to the
already rather full drives. We can't cancel the backfills so have to
resort to reweight or stopping OSDs or other whack a mole games until
utilization decreases. For our setup we used to have cron run a
babysitter script to manipulate osd_max_backfills, such that >80%
utilization -> osd_max_backfills = 1, >70% utilization ->
osd_max_backfills = 2 etc so we ensured not hitting full but only
backfill_full.
3) One strange thing is that the pool in question, pgp_num already
reached 16384, typically when you set pg_num to 16384, internally Ceph
will increase pgp_num in steps that does not exceed cause
target_max_misplaced_ratio (same value used by balancer) at a time, so
pgp_num will lag pgp_num for some time. Even if you increased this from
0.05 to 0.3 (which is not recommended), unless maybe you do have a large
number of objects stored in the other pools ( ceph df will show this),
but in such case then maybe pool 11 is not the only significant pool,
and maybe one of your EC 9 (6+3?) has a lot of data and small number of
pgs ( 32 ?) so you have very large pgs that can have dominant effect on
backfill as per point 1).
I don't think our other significant pools are like that:
"
[root@ceph-e3s3 ~]# ceph df detail
--- RAW STORAGE ---
CLASS SIZE AVAIL USED RAW USED %RAW USED
hdd 4.1 PiB 1.6 PiB 2.5 PiB 2.5 PiB 60.31
nvme 210 TiB 57 TiB 153 TiB 153 TiB 72.90
nvmebulk 196 TiB 149 TiB 46 TiB 46 TiB 23.70
ssd 49 TiB 33 TiB 15 TiB 15 TiB 31.50
TOTAL 4.5 PiB 1.9 PiB 2.7 PiB 2.7 PiB 59.03
--- POOLS ---
POOL ID PGS STORED (DATA) (OMAP) OBJECTS
USED (DATA) (OMAP) %USED MAX AVAIL QUOTA OBJECTS QUOTA BYTES
DIRTY USED COMPR UNDER COMPR
rbd 4 1024 110 TiB 110 TiB 9.8 KiB 29.24M 287
TiB 287 TiB 29 KiB 25.73 276 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 40 TiB 82 TiB
libvirt 5 256 3.3 TiB 3.3 TiB 60 KiB 867.13k 6.7
TiB 6.7 TiB 179 KiB 28.85 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 1.5 TiB 4.6 TiB
rbd_internal 6 2048 103 TiB 103 TiB 4.9 KiB 32.57M 242
TiB 242 TiB 15 KiB 22.62 276 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 66 TiB 132 TiB
.mgr 8 1 4.9 GiB 4.9 GiB 0 B 1.26k 2.0
GiB 2.0 GiB 0 B 0.01 8.3 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 2.0 GiB 9.8 GiB
rbd_ec 10 32 8.0 MiB 8.0 MiB 1.0 KiB 27 3.4
MiB 3.4 MiB 3.1 KiB 0 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 1.5 MiB 23 MiB
rbd_ec_data 11 16384 1.0 PiB 1.0 PiB 2.6 KiB 279.74M 1.4
PiB 1.4 PiB 4.0 KiB 63.85 552 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 139 TiB 277 TiB
rbd.nvme 23 2048 95 TiB 95 TiB 3.3 KiB 25.16M 151
TiB 151 TiB 6.6 KiB 78.24 21 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 32 TiB 72 TiB
.nfs 25 32 20 KiB 12 KiB 7.6 KiB 68 275
KiB 252 KiB 23 KiB 0 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 0 B 0 B
cephfs.cephfs.meta 31 128 15 GiB 269 MiB 15 GiB 3.05M 46
GiB 619 MiB 45 GiB 0.27 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 77 MiB 266 MiB
cephfs.cephfs.data 32 512 449 B 449 B 0 B 130.59M 48
KiB 48 KiB 0 B 0 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 0 B 0 B
cephfs.nvme.data 34 32 977 GiB 977 GiB 0 B 250k 122
GiB 122 GiB 0 B 0.28 21 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 122 GiB 1.9 TiB
cephfs.ssd.data 35 32 754 GiB 754 GiB 0 B 1.01M 1.7
TiB 1.7 TiB 0 B 9.29 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 331 GiB 864 GiB
cephfs.hdd.data 37 2048 207 TiB 207 TiB 570 B 174.93M 426
TiB 426 TiB 1.3 KiB 34.01 368 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 38 TiB 77 TiB
rbd.ssd 39 64 1.6 TiB 1.6 TiB 1.5 KiB 431.89k 4.2
TiB 4.2 TiB 4.5 KiB 20.42 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 518 GiB 1.2 TiB
rbd.ssd.ec 43 32 2.4 KiB 18 B 2.4 KiB 5 19
KiB 12 KiB 7.3 KiB 0 5.5 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 0 B 0 B
rbd.ssd.ec.data 44 32 1.0 TiB 1.0 TiB 0 B 269.92k 2.0
TiB 2.0 TiB 0 B 10.55 7.4 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 388 GiB 762 GiB
rbd.nvmebulk.ec 47 32 3.0 MiB 3.0 MiB 5.0 KiB 6 6.1
MiB 6.1 MiB 15 KiB 0 9.1 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 528 KiB 4.0 MiB
rbd.nvmebulk.data 48 512 23 TiB 23 TiB 0 B 6.00M 46
TiB 46 TiB 0 B 62.93 12 TiB N/A N/A
N/A 4.1 TiB 9.4 TiB
"
The rbd pool is the one with the largest PGs at around 100GB.
Thanks.
Mvh.
Torkil
again it is quite strange.
/maged
On 30/04/2025 00:54, Torkil Svensgaard wrote:
On 29-04-2025 22:52, Anthony D'Atri wrote:
In order to get our PG sizes better aligned we doubled the number of
PGs on the pool with the largest PG size. The pool is HDD with
DB/WAL on SATA SSD and HDD sizes between 2TB and 20TB and PG size
was ~140GB before the doubling.
Please send `ceph osd dump | grep pool`
[root@lazy ~]# ceph osd dump | grep pool
pool 4 'rbd' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 4 object_hash
rjenkins pg_num 1024 pgp_num 1024 autoscale_mode off last_change
2816850 lfor 0/1844098/2447930 flags hashpspool,selfmanaged_snaps,bulk
stripe_width 0 application rbd read_balance_score 3.97
pool 5 'libvirt' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3 object_hash
rjenkins pg_num 256 pgp_num 256 autoscale_mode off last_change 2824108
lfor 0/434267/1506461 flags hashpspool,selfmanaged_snaps stripe_width
0 application rbd read_balance_score 6.07
pool 6 'rbd_internal' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 4
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 2048 pgp_num 2048 autoscale_mode off
last_change 2816850 lfor 0/1370796/2806939 flags
hashpspool,selfmanaged_snaps,bulk stripe_width 0 application rbd
read_balance_score 2.78
pool 8 '.mgr' replicated size 2 min_size 1 crush_rule 3 object_hash
rjenkins pg_num 1 pgp_num 1 autoscale_mode warn last_change 1667576
flags hashpspool stripe_width 0 pg_num_min 1 application
mgr,mgr_devicehealth read_balance_score 40.00
pool 10 'rbd_ec' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3 object_hash
rjenkins pg_num 32 pgp_num 32 autoscale_mode warn last_change 1919209
lfor 0/1180414/1180412 flags hashpspool,selfmanaged_snaps stripe_width
0 application rbd read_balance_score 8.16
pool 11 'rbd_ec_data' erasure profile DRCMR_k4m2 size 6 min_size 5
crush_rule 0 object_hash rjenkins pg_num 16384 pgp_num 16384
autoscale_mode off last_change 2832704 lfor 0/1291190/2832700 flags
hashpspool,ec_overwrites,selfmanaged_snaps,bulk stripe_width 16384
fast_read 1 compression_algorithm snappy compression_mode aggressive
application rbd
pool 23 'rbd.nvme' replicated size 2 min_size 1 crush_rule 5
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 2048 pgp_num 2048 autoscale_mode off
last_change 2722280 lfor 0/0/2139786 flags
hashpspool,selfmanaged_snaps,bulk stripe_width 0 application rbd
read_balance_score 1.35
pool 25 '.nfs' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3 object_hash
rjenkins pg_num 32 pgp_num 32 autoscale_mode warn last_change 2177402
lfor 0/0/2065595 flags hashpspool stripe_width 0 application nfs
read_balance_score 8.16
pool 31 'cephfs.cephfs.meta' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 128 pgp_num 128 autoscale_mode off
last_change 2478849 lfor 0/0/2198357 flags hashpspool stripe_width 0
pg_autoscale_bias 4 pg_num_min 16 recovery_priority 5 application
cephfs read_balance_score 6.94
pool 32 'cephfs.cephfs.data' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 512 pgp_num 512 autoscale_mode off
last_change 2178931 lfor 0/2178574/2178572 flags hashpspool
stripe_width 0 application cephfs read_balance_score 6.07
pool 34 'cephfs.nvme.data' replicated size 2 min_size 1 crush_rule 5
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 32 pgp_num 32 autoscale_mode off
last_change 2722280 lfor 0/2147353/2147351 flags hashpspool,bulk
stripe_width 0 compression_algorithm zstd compression_mode aggressive
application cephfs read_balance_score 3.77
pool 35 'cephfs.ssd.data' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 32 pgp_num 32 autoscale_mode off
last_change 2198980 lfor 0/0/2126134 flags hashpspool,bulk
stripe_width 0 compression_algorithm zstd compression_mode aggressive
application cephfs read_balance_score 8.05
pool 37 'cephfs.hdd.data' erasure profile DRCMR_k4m5_datacenter_hdd
size 9 min_size 5 crush_rule 7 object_hash rjenkins pg_num 2048
pgp_num 2048 autoscale_mode off last_change 2816850 lfor 0/0/2139486
flags hashpspool,ec_overwrites,bulk stripe_width 16384 fast_read 1
compression_algorithm zstd compression_mode aggressive application cephfs
pool 39 'rbd.ssd' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 64 pgp_num 64 autoscale_mode warn
last_change 2541795 flags hashpspool,selfmanaged_snaps stripe_width 0
application rbd read_balance_score 7.52
pool 43 'rbd.ssd.ec' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 3
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 32 pgp_num 32 autoscale_mode warn
last_change 2542174 flags hashpspool stripe_width 0 compression_mode
aggressive application rbd read_balance_score 8.16
pool 44 'rbd.ssd.ec.data' erasure profile DRCMR_k4m5_datacenter_ssd
size 9 min_size 5 crush_rule 6 object_hash rjenkins pg_num 32 pgp_num
32 autoscale_mode warn last_change 2542179 flags
hashpspool,ec_overwrites,selfmanaged_snaps stripe_width 16384
compression_mode aggressive application rbd
pool 47 'rbd.nvmebulk.ec' replicated size 3 min_size 2 crush_rule 10
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 32 pgp_num 32 autoscale_mode warn
last_change 2737621 flags hashpspool stripe_width 0 application rbd
read_balance_score 3.67
pool 48 'rbd.nvmebulk.data' erasure profile
DRCMR_k4m5_datacenter_nvmebulk size 9 min_size 5 crush_rule 11
object_hash rjenkins pg_num 512 pgp_num 512 autoscale_mode off
last_change 2737621 lfor 0/0/2736420 flags
hashpspool,ec_overwrites,selfmanaged_snaps stripe_width 16384
compression_algorithm snappy compression_mode aggressive application rbd
Pool 11 is the one in question.
osd: 576 osds: 576 up (since 2h), 576 in (since 3d); 8767
remapped pgs
pools: 18 pools, 25249 pgs
objects: 683.85M objects, 1.6 PiB
usage: 2.7 PiB used, 1.9 PiB / 4.5 PiB avail
pgs: 842769842/3951610673 objects misplaced (21.327%)
16481 active+clean
8762 active+remapped+backfill_wait
6 active+remapped+backfilling
Are you *sure* that you have both the mclock override enabled and the
op scheduler set to wpq at the proper scope?
Reasonably sure:
[root@ceph-flash1 ~]# ceph config dump | grep wpq
osd advanced osd_op_queue wpq *
[root@ceph-flash1 ~]# ceph config dump | grep
osd_mclock_override_recovery_settings
osd advanced osd_mclock_override_recovery_settings
true
osd.234 advanced osd_mclock_override_recovery_settings
true
Note that if you’re using a wide EC profile that will gridlock the
process to an extent.
io:
client: 374 MiB/s rd, 14 MiB/s wr, 2.86k op/s rd, 410 op/s wr
recovery: 153 MiB/s, 38 objects/s
"
The balancer was running and seemingly making very small changes:
"
[root@lazy ~]# ceph balancer status
{
"active": true,
"last_optimize_duration": "0:00:01.012679",
"last_optimize_started": "Mon Apr 28 10:01:24 2025",
"mode": "upmap",
"no_optimization_needed": true,
"optimize_result": "Optimization plan created successfully",
"plans": []
}
"
The balancer has a misplaced % above which it won’t make additional
changes, that defaults I think to 5%. With 21% misplaced the
balancer will be on hold.
I increased target_max_misplaced_ratio to ensure the balancer could
work out all the moves:
[root@ceph-flash1 ~]# ceph config dump | grep misplaced
mgr basic target_max_misplaced_ratio 0.300000
This is going to take a while, any tips on how to escape the
apparent bottleneck?
Try raising
osd_recovery_max_active
osd_recovery_max_single_start
osd_max_backfills
to 2 or even 3. I have no empirical evidence but I’ve observed that
when changing back to wpq that somewhat higher than customary values
for these may be needed to be effective. Restarting the OSDs one
failure domain at a time, waiting for recovery, might help according
to some references.
I am reluctant to increase osd_max_backfills or
osd_recovery_max_active because of the small disks in the cluster and
the large PG size. We've historically hit problems with concurrent
backfills making disks go backfill_full or even full and then it is
suddenly a different problem. Some of the smaller drives are at ~75%
utilization currently while larger drives are at ~56%, which is one of
the things we hope to improve upon by increasing the pg_num.
I'll look at osd_recovery_max_single_start.
Is having many PGs misplaced actually counter productive
Not so much unless you’re severely low on RAM I think, but I would
suggest upmap-remapped to vanish the misplaced PGs and let the
balancer do it incrementally. If you have 21% misplaced pgremapper
may not have worked as expected - I have never used it, but
upmap-remapped has worked well for me, usually needing 2-3 successive
runs.
The 21% was right after doubling the pg_num. I then ran pgremapper and
got misplaced to less than 1% and then the balancer is slowly
increasing the number again. I think those tools are largely doing the
same thing? I'll try doing it again.
Thanks.
Mvh.
Torkil
I was thinking it was better to let the balancer balance all it
could, as that would make all the moves available and decrease the
risk of bottlenecking.
Wise choice.
Thanks.
Mvh.
Torkil
--
Torkil Svensgaard
Sysadmin
MR-Forskningssektionen, afs. 714
DRCMR, Danish Research Centre for Magnetic Resonance
Hvidovre Hospital
Kettegård Allé 30
DK-2650 Hvidovre
Denmark
Tel: +45 386 22828
E-mail: tor...@drcmr.dk
_______________________________________________
ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io
To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
_______________________________________________
ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io
To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
--
Torkil Svensgaard
Sysadmin
MR-Forskningssektionen, afs. 714
DRCMR, Danish Research Centre for Magnetic Resonance
Hvidovre Hospital
Kettegård Allé 30
DK-2650 Hvidovre
Denmark
Tel: +45 386 22828
E-mail: tor...@drcmr.dk
_______________________________________________
ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@ceph.io
To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-le...@ceph.io
