Alicia Plotkin kindly forwarded this information about separating Glossy & White-faced Ibis. The first step is figuring out what age the bird is, so I’m looking for evidence about the Armitage Rd bird. - - Dave Nutter
> Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Alicia <[email protected]> >> Date: November 5, 2017 at 10:17:47 PM EST >> To: Ann Mitchell <[email protected]> >> Subject: Fwd: Re: [LABIRD-L] Identification and Status of White-faced and >> Glossy ibises in southeastern LA >> >> Saw your post on the ibis ID and thought you might be interested in this >> discussion that took place recently on the Louisiana bird list, where the >> ranges of the two ibises overlap. >> >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [LABIRD-L] Identification and Status of White-faced and >> Glossy ibises in southeastern LA >> Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:03:21 -0500 >> From: Steven W. Cardiff <[email protected]> >> Reply-To: Steven W. Cardiff <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> >> Labirders- >> The only thing I would add is that adults in non-breeding plumage >> retain the "reddish/chestnut" upper wing coverts (shoulder). This is how >> they can be distinguished from immatures. So, if you are panning through a >> flock during fall-winter, individuals with the chestnut upper wing patch >> will be adults and should have their definitive iris and facial skin colors. >> >> Steve Cardiff >> >> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:52 AM, James V Remsen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > LABIRD: Part 2: >> > >> > Here are the ID problems, as I understand them so far. Steve, Donna, and >> > others please chime in to repair any damage below: >> > >> > ========== >> > >> > JUVS: these are the brownish necked individuals with few if any streaks, >> > often with pale blotches on the bill. These are NOT identifiable to >> > species as far as anyone knows and should always be reported as Plegadis >> > sp. in SE LA (including Florida and River parishes). All of them have gray >> > facial skins and dark eyes. >> > >> > ========== >> > >> > IMMS: In first basic plumage, the neck becomes streaked. The facial skin >> > is gray in both species. The iris in White-faced at some point becomes >> > red. So, if you do see a streak-necked bird with a red eye, then it is >> > WFIB, but a dark-eyed bird cannot be safely identified. A real problem is >> > that as White-faced matures, it can pass through a stage that looks very >> > Glossy-like in still having dark eye and facial skin but having traces of >> > white around face that can make it look like a Glossy. For example, the >> > following photos were found by Tony Leukering from CA and NV, where GLIB >> > would be extremely unusual, so these are presumably WFIB: >> > >> > California: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/70670231#_ga=2.29961980. >> > 25890241.1507509707-334541348.1399337695 >> > California: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/68874791#_ga=2. >> > 265350860.25890241.1507509707-334541348.1399337695 >> > California: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/34774341#_ga=2.59837166. >> > 25890241.1507509707-334541348.1399337695 >> > Nevada: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/69398871#_ga=2. >> > 265350860.25890241.1507509707-334541348.1399337695 >> > >> > >> > An open question is how early WFIB begin to acquire a red iris. We can >> > all contribute to this by uploading photos to eBird. >> > >> > ========== >> > >> > >> > ADULTS in basic (non-breeding) plumage, i.e. streaked neck, lack of >> > breeding colors around face (but wing coverts still glossy green etc: the >> > most reliable way to tell them apart is by iris color: red in WFIB, brown >> > in GLIB. The facial skin should also be pinkish in WFIB, gray in GLIB. >> > >> > ============= >> > >> > Summary: FIRST, put your bird into an age category and then …. >> > >> > >> > 1. JUVS: cannot be identified to species and should always be listed as >> > Plegadis sp. In SE LA. >> > 2. IMMS: IF the iris is red, then it’s WFIB; otherwise, should always >> > be listed as Plegadis sp. In SE LA. >> > 3. ADS (non-breeding): If you can see iris color or facial skin, then >> > you can ID them; otherwise, should always be listed as Plegadis sp. In SE >> > LA. >> > >> > I am skipping the topics of first alternate plumage and hybrids (which >> > are not infrequent), but beware of birds with mixed or intermediate >> > characters. >> > >> > I am going to hit the “reset button” for SELA Pleads, so all you eBirders >> > should brace yourselves for a barrage of messages. >> > >> > =================== >> > >> > Dr. J. V. Remsen >> > Prof. of Natural Science and Curator of Birds >> > Museum of Natural Science/Dept. Biological Sciences >> > LSU, Baton Rouge, LA 70803 >> > najames<at>LSU.edu >> > >> > > On Oct 15, 2017, at 2:17 PM, James V Remsen <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > LABIRD: It is clear from eBird data that observers are over-reporting >> > Glossy Ibis in southeastern LA based on (1) assumption that most or all >> > Plegadis there are Glossy, and (2) treating any Plegadis as Glossy unless >> > it has obvious white facial markings or red iris. I have made these >> > mistakes myself. Both assumptions are wrong. >> > > >> > > To force us all to pay closer attention to their status and >> > distribution, I have zeroed the eBird filters for both species for all of >> > southeastern LA as far west as Terrebonne and around L. Pontchartrain >> > despite the facts that both species are expected there. Briefly, the only >> > way to ID non-breeding plumage Plegadis is by iris color (red in WHFIB, >> > dark in GLIB), and many WFIB to not attain their red eyes until late in >> > their first year, so dark iris is not sufficient to call a bird a Glossy. >> > More later in a subsequent message on what I understand concerning their >> > ID. >> > > >> > > So, henceforth, you will have to defend your species IDs on these two in >> > the above regions. Otherwise, just enter as Glossy/White-faced. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > =================== >> > > >> > > Dr. J. V. Remsen >> > > Prof. of Natural Science and Curator of Birds >> > > Museum of Natural Science/Dept. Biological Sciences >> > > LSU, Baton Rouge, LA 70803 >> > > najames<at>LSU.edu >> > > >> > >> > >> -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
