[Note: The last is a forwarded reply from David Carlisle via https://github.com/latex3/tagging-project/issues/1491#issuecomment-5064433061 ]
On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 10:30 PM Charles Staats < [email protected]> wrote: > @charlesstaats I think this is being CC'ed to the texinfo list > (somewhere?) but as I'm seeing it on the github issue the original email > context is stripped, but feel free to forward. > > > . However, it looks like it was added in 2021, > > yes > > > What happens if graphicx is older with an unknown alt= passed? > > it would error but you could add code to the latex preamble to > conditionally make it a defined (and no-op) or you could make all such > accessibility additions conditional on `\DocumentMetadata` being defined > (that was also added in 2021) > > > In case it is possible to use \DocumentMetadata, which should be the > format of the lang? Some examples on the internet look like BCP 47 > > yes or omit it and it defaults to `en` > > > Not sure that there is a use [for artifact] in Texinfo to LaTeX > conversion. > > possibly not, it is for marking essentially decorative images which you > want to drop entirely from the accessible view. > > > It seems to be actualtext=, not actual=. We could use a file like > image.txt that we use in Info output, for example for that. It is not > clear, however, how to specify it. Is it an issue if there are end of > line in it? Blank lines? The manual does not show any example. > > In the end it needs to resolve to a plain text string that is a PDF > property value so ends of lines are OK, but are spaces as is normal in TeX. > The PDF standard suggests this should be for small sections of text > typically replacing a custom symbol (or a textual image) not for paragraph > length > > > It is not clear to me why style=nextline is incompatible with tagging. > Is it really important, or should it be fixed someday? > > We'll fix that. Most of `enumitem` keys are emulated by the new built-in > accessible list code however that one is currently document as `todo` > so I added a quick workaround in this document, but just assume it works. > > > > The noparboxtagging stuff seems obscure to me, but I can add it if there > is some explanation, > > Please ignore that, it will go, we were just forcing in some markup to > check that we could generate a PDF/UA-2 accessible file from the texinfo > source. Now we know it's possible we can fix up the markup. > > > Regarding `\usepackage{unicode-math`}, I do not have a clear idea > whether it is a good idea to use that instead of amsmath. > > It's just a lot easier to generate MathML accessible mathematics (which is > required to be in Unicode) if you use a Unicode engine and Unicode math > fonts in the original. However it is possible to use legacy tex math fonts > and map to unicode so it's not essential, but in general accessibility is > better from luatex than pdftex. > > ---- > so in short if you ignore the experimental ad-hoc commands added to fix up > the test document so it worked today, what would be good would be > > * an option or configuration or whatever that allowed you to choose > accessibility options for latex, so > > ``` > \DocumentMetadata{ > lang=<document-language-from-texinfo>, > pdfstandard=ua-2, > tagging=on > } > ``` > > there are other options that could be added there but keeping things > simple.... > > * then use `unicode-math` instead of `amsmath` and pass the alt text > argument on graphics through to `\includegraphics` > > it might be nice to have some way of saying to use that argument as > actualtext instead of alt but if that doesn't really fit the texinfo input > syntax I don't think that's essential. If alt is OK for the html > translation it's probably OK for pdf too. > > * set the pdf metadata dc:title based on information in the texinfo source. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 2:31 PM Patrice Dumas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 11:07:25AM -0600, Charles Staats wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > Currently, `texi2any --latex` appears to discard any alt text tag, see >> > >> https://github.com/latex3/tagging-project/issues/1491#issuecomment-5061006949 >> . >> > Would it be possible to change this? >> > >> > Ideally, there would be some sort of flag like `--accessible` or >> > `--latex-tagging` that could be passed to the texi2any script that would >> > cause certain changes to the TeX and pdf output, such as the following: >> >> I do not think that a command-line should be used for that. Maybe a >> customization variable. >> >> > * Forward any alt text to the `\includegraphics` commands. >> >> This seems to be relevant independently of the remaining. However, it >> looks like it was added in 2021, according to >> >> https://ctan.tetaneutral.net/macros/latex/required/graphics/grfguide.pdf >> >> What happends if graphicx is older with an unknown alt= passed? >> >> > * Insert a `\DocumentMetadata` command (with appropriate settings) at >> the >> > beginning of the document. >> >> Which LaTeX version support \DocumentMetadata? What happens if the >> version used does not? >> >> In case it is possible to use \DocumentMetadata, which should be the >> format of the lang? Some examples on the internet look like BCP 47, but >> it is not so clear. >> >> > * (For pdf output) compile with lualatex instead of pdflatex. >> >> texi2any does not compile the LaTeX file, just produces it. >> >> > * Ideally, we would also have "actual" and "artifact" tags as well. If I >> > understand correctly, the "actual=<stuff>" tag indicates to >> screenreaders >> > that the image should be treated as if it were the text "<stuff>"; >> >> It seems to be actualtext=, not actual=. We could use a file like >> image.txt that we use in Info output, for example for that. It is not >> clear, however, how to specify it. Is it an issue if there are end of >> line in it? Blank lines? The manual does not show any example. >> >> Also it seems to be quite recent, end of 2024, similarly, what happens >> with older graphicx with an unknown actualtext= passed? >> >> > the >> > "artifact" tag tells the screenreader to ignore the image altogether >> (used, >> > e.g., for logos). >> >> Not sure that there is a use in Texinfo to LaTeX conversion. >> >> > There may be other changes needed, as discussed in the issue linked >> above. >> > (Note: Some of these may be better dealt with on the TeX side rather >> than >> > the texinfo side.) >> >> I think that \hypersetup{pdftitle={}} could be added. It looks like a >> relevant addition in the default case. >> >> It is not clear to me why style=nextline is incompatible with tagging. >> Is it really important, or should it be fixed someday? >> >> The noparboxtagging stuff seems obscure to me, but I can add it if there >> is some explanation, and also it is not clear to me if >> \AssignTaggingSocketPlug >> and \tagpdfparaOff are backward compatible enough. >> >> Regarding \usepackage{unicode-math}, I do not have a clear idea whether >> it is a good idea to use that instead of amsmath. It seems that the >> \mathbf and similar commands should be changed, but it is not so clear >> either. Also it seems to require some specific fonts. Maybe there >> could be some customization option to generate LaTeX for an engine or >> the other. >> >> -- >> Pat >> >
