I am fine having it show timezone. I just need local time AND the WSID. Thanks.
Blake On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 7:21 AM, Elias Mårtenson <loke...@gmail.com> wrote: > You are right. )SAVE is indeed a command, and the output is meant for > humans to read. It should be local time. That said, I don't mind seeing the > timezone there as well. It's helpful when looking at logs (I'm speaking > from experience here since I'm right now sitting in a hotel room in Sydney, > two timezones away from where I live). > > Regards, > Elias > > > On 9 May 2014 20:17, Blake McBride <blake1...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Given that )SAVE is a command and not a function (something intended to >> be used by another program), I think it is clear that it should display >> local time without any timezone information. >> >> Secondly, the output message from )SAVE is for convenience of the >> immediate programmer doing the work, and not some data to be used to >> communicate across countries. If I want to do that, Unix gives plenty of >> information associated with the saved file. >> >> So, in general, I agree with you say completely. It just doesn't apply >> to the )SAVE commend (except in possible very rare cases.) >> >> In the case of ⎕TS, that too should return local time for many reasons. >> Creating an additional ⎕ function to return GMT time is fine and useful >> too. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Blake >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Elias Mårtenson <loke...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Before I continue further, I want to emphasise that there is a problem >>> with the output of )SAVE. It may, however, be different from your opinion. >>> >>> There are two different things to think about when working with time: >>> >>> - Displaying time information for the user's benefit >>> - For processing by a computer program >>> >>> In the first case, it's natural to display local time. Usually one >>> displays the local time followed by the an indication of what timezone was >>> used when displaying this value. This is where GNU APL does things wrong, >>> as it's displaying GMT along with the timezone information where the save >>> happened. This is not right. When displaying GMT time, one should indicate >>> the timezone as Z, UTC, GMT+0, or something similar. >>> >>> The second case is when the number is returned for the purpose of >>> further computation. This number should (almost) always be UTC. There are >>> of course many reasons for this, but the most compelling one is that it's >>> very easy to convert a UTC timestamp into any other timezone for display to >>> a user, but converting *back* from local time can in some cases >>> actually be completely impossible (think daylight savings, and other >>> adjustments). >>> >>> As for time manipulation, it's an incredibly complicated subject >>> (something I have worked a lot on in my career) and I would certainly like >>> to see something simple, such as the Unix time_t used for time >>> representation. The worst one I've come across is the ⎕TS form, which is >>> pretty much impossible to work with except for displaying the current time >>> to the user. >>> >>> There are other arguments that can be made, but my mail is long enough >>> already and I think my position has been made. :-) >>> >>> Regards, >>> Elias >>> >>> >>> On 9 May 2014 19:42, Blake McBride <blake1...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> Two additional problems with the )SAVE message: >>>> >>>> 1. Drop the timezone info i.e. "(GMT -5)" >>>> >>>> 2. Display local time instead of GMT time. >>>> >>>> My entire life revolves around my local time. GMT time is largely >>>> meaningless to me. For me, GMT time only has value when I am trying to >>>> coordinate something with someone in another part of the world. I can do >>>> the translation, when necessary, at that time. As it is, I have to do time >>>> math each time I want to use the value/message )SAVE returns. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Blake >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Blake McBride <blake1...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> I believe the )SAVE command should display the name of the workspace >>>>> after the date and time. I am looking at the Gilman and Rose APL2 book >>>>> and >>>>> that's the way they show it. (In addition to my memory.) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Blake >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
