I wish I was going to World Con, but I'm not. (I have some political issues with Denver, but that's another story and not the reason I'm not going -- I just can't get away at the right time). Too bad you're leaving tomorrow though. Have fun at the convention, though.
----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Louis Mann<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:13 PM Subject: Religion kills > I can't speak for William, but as a non-believer > myself, I find a lot to be angry about in the relationship > between society and religion. Personally, I am sick and > tried of hearing "atheistic" used as a synonym for > evil, I'm sick of hearing political candidates of both > sides pander to a small minority of fundamentalist believers > when surveys consistently show that the second largest > "religious affiliation" in the United States > (after the combined Christian denominations) are those who > consider themselves non-religious or secular. Where are our > candidates? Where are the politicians that speak for us? > Secular voters, if organized, would be larger block than > Jewish voters, or any of the other non-Christian religions > combined -- but when was the last time you saw a > representative of atheists or agnostics included in some > politicians ecumenical service? And can you imagine any > candidate for national office in the US saying openly that > they don't believe in god? And yet, Christian groups > constantly present themselves as an oppressed > minority battling against the evils of secularism. I'm > very very tired of hearing politicians talk about their > faith -- as if unquestioning, unsupported belief in anything > was something to be proud of. The greatest sins in history > -- and certainly almost all the crimes of the Bush > administration, from Guantanamo to the war on science and > the deliberate suppression of global warming information -- > are the crimes of men who believe so totally in a certain > point of view that facts are not only unnecessary, not only > irrelevant, but an evil that must be suppressed. Anything > that we believe in unquestioningly -- and we all have some > of these -- is a liability, not a virtue. I'm tired of > people telling me that evolution is an "open > question" or that there is no real evidence to support > it. I'm tired of living in a country where, in the > first decade of the 21st century we have a major party (at > least one -- Democrats don't have much > more courage here) where every single > candidate will openly avow that he doesn't believe in > evolution. Who cares? You might not believe in gravity > either, but step off a ten story building and see how much > good your belief does you. I'm tired of being told that > I have to be tolerant of beliefs that, in any other context, > we would label delusional and maybe outright insane. (Last > year an Orca whale trapped in Puget Sound here in Seattle > died because scientists couldn't get close enough to it > to rescue it, because local Indians were convinced it was > the re-incarnation of their ancient Chief and blocked all > the scientists attempts. We have to respect that because it > is their culture and their religion? It could just as > easily have been fundamentalist Christians convinced that > the whale was an instrument of Satan, or that it once housed > Jonah, or whatever. Its still insane thinking.) Finally, > I'm tired of being told that America is a Christian > country and that the Founding Fathers > were Christian heroes when I know > that most of them couldn't get elected today to save > their lives. They'd be further out on the fringe than > Dennis Kucinich. Thomas Jefferson was working on a version > of the Bible that eliminated all references to miracles or > the supernatural while living in the White House. The > founding fathers deliberately left all mention of god out of > the constitution because they intended to set up a secular > government, founded on the idea of reason and rationality. > Like I said, I can't speak for William, but I can > understand how a non-believer can be very angry about a lot > of things going on in the world, and though I hope we all > try not to, I can understand how someone can become so > disillusioned that they start to tar all believers with the > same brush. brilliant olin. i guess what taught me tolerance was when i fell in love with a christian girl who exemplified the better side of her faith. i still harbor a lot of hatred toward the "moral majority", but i don't let them affect how i run for office. i have lost eight elections, but i will NEVER pander to religion. i have even made speeches denouncing corruption in church and state, and identified myself as a neo-marxist revisionist. i am in seattle right now visiting a friend who is waiting for a liver transplant. on wednesday, august 6th, i leave for world con. i would love to continue this discussion at denvention! jon _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l<http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l> _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
