On 23/04/2008, at 1:25 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: > >>> Otherwise, they would have to account for religious that >>> successfully teach >>> and encourage humility, grace, forgiveness, critical thinking and so >>> forth... >> >> Who are, on the whole, in the minority. Your experience of the >> religious in your liberal Lutheran church is somewhat different to >> that of mine when I lived in the Middle East or when I grew up in the >> UK... Religion in most places is treated with an authority that far >> exceeds its actual contribution to modern society. > > > I guess I won't just say, "Cite, please..." But can you back this > up at > all? It is my impression that the nature of the majority is > obscured by the > noise of the self-righteous True Believers.
And it is my impression that the reverse is true, from my experiences travelling. *shrug* Maybe it's confirmation bias, but outside of the protected and liberal "West", it's a bit different. Like I said, I lived in the Middle East. > > >> >> It seems to me you're missing the point, which is that all number of >> damaging behaviour is excused in the name of religion when it is >> otherwise not tolerated. Of *course* these things aren't exclusive to >> religion (as you rightly point out, politics is damaging too), but >> religion provides a shield. > > > Excused by whom? I think there's a straw man there. Nobody > "excuses" the > Taliban for what it does. Nobody "excuses" the hatred of Phelps and > his > crew. THAT'S a straw man. I'm talking about things like this: Try this: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/04/18/bible2.html?sid=101 "MOUNT VERNON, Ohio — They painted crosses on white T-shirts and wore them to school yesterday. They carried Bibles and put them on their desks. Some students at Mount Vernon Middle and High schools want everyone to know they support a science teacher who has refused to remove a Bible from his classroom desk. Students cheered and offered high-fives to Middle School teacher John Freshwater when he showed up yesterday at a student-organized rally in his honor. Mount Vernon High senior Caleb McCoy stood on a rock as he told the crowd of students and parents at the Knox County school how much he and others back Freshwater. “Like him, we're expressing our First Amendment rights. He has the right to express his religion. We have the right to assemble,” said McCoy, 18, who led the afternoon rally. "On Monday, Middle School Principal William D. White told Freshwater to remove “all religious items” from his classroom by the end of Wednesday." So he's been told to remove the Bible from his desk... sounds like a storm in a tea cup, no? But wait... "In one class, Freshwater used Lego pieces to describe the beginning of the world. He dumped the pieces, then asked students if the Legos could assemble by themselves, said Joe Stuart, 18, assistant editor of the high-school newspaper. When Freshwater taught students about electrical current, he used a device to leave a red mark in the shape of a cross on the forearms of some students, Stuart said." He burnt a cross into student's arms... and the hoo-haa is about the Bible on his desk??? It's this I'm talking about. No, I don't think the behaviour of this teacher is typical of the religious. But the cover he's getting from others because they've made it about religion, rather than him being irresponsible and inappropriate (and not a little bit creepy...) is very typical. Charlie. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
