> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ritu
> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:07 AM
> To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
> Subject: RE: Iraq Re: "Someone Must Tell Them"


> Only if you share Bush's Manichean world-view. I don't. But we have
> covered this ground earlier, before the invasion.

We have, and I think there is a reasonable view that might address some of
what you and some of what JDG argues for.  Which probably means that neither
of y'all will like it.

I believe that we have responsibility for our actions and for our inactions.
But, the type of responsibility we have varies with how directly we are the
agents of the results of our actions/inactions.  For example, the
responsibility the United States has for the action of its soldiers is
greater than the responsibility it has for the actions of the militia that
are torturing and killing wantonly in Iraq.  It would not be reasonable to
argue that the US soldiers torture and kill Iraqi's less than Hussein's men
as a defense for the morality of US actions in Iraq.  It would, however, be
reasonable to argue that, while there is wanton murder by some, the levels
are lower than what they were before.  To use a separate example, crimes
committed by members of the police are not an acceptable tool of law
enforcement.  But, at the same time, the crime rate in a city need not be
zero for us to consider the new police strategy to be a success because
crime rates have been lowered by it.

Turning back to the question we argued before the 2nd Iraq war, those like
me who argued against going in needed to accept the consequences of Hussein
remaining in power as a result of the path we favored being taken.  By the
same token, those who favored invasion need to accept the consequences of
that invasion.  Now, I'll admit that a reasonable person could have thought
Bush would have handled things better than he did, but I do think that my
initial prediction that we'd win the initial conflict and bungle managing
the peace afterwards (with a civil war as a real risk) turned out to be
generally accurate.

So, I'd argue that those who argue for invading Iraq must accept the
consequences of that action being taken in the exact same sense that those
of us who opposed going in needed to accept the consequences of the
continued rule of Hussein.  Neither side needed to want the bad consequences
of their chosen path...they just needed to accept the responsibility
inherent in choosing those consequences instead of others.  In doing so,
"the other alternatives were all worse" would be a valid argument.

Dan M. 


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