> Damon Agretto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >[I wrote:] > > >From a modern medical standpoint, children > > drinking alcohol is detrimental, as alcohol is a > neurotoxin; > > developing brains are more vulnerable than adult > > brains....But from a survival > > standpoint, it was sensible to for all to drink > > (watered) wine, as decent drinking water was not > > often available to our ancestors, and > > cholera/typhoid/polio > > etc. etc. were frequently fatal.... > > how many brain cells do you need to do > > near-subsistance agricultural labor? > Well not all our ancestors were out in the fields > braking up dirt clods with clubs!
<gasp> No...really??! ;) > Is there a certain point above which detrimental > effects begin to occur in children, or is alcohol in > any form bad? FREX, is the alcohol in cough syrup at > a > level that is detrimental, or is there too little to > have any significant effect? I'm thinking on a > sustained bases here (i.e. daily). There has been no deliberate research on children, for ethical reasons, WRT alcohol effects on the brain; I think it unlikely for enough alcohol from recommended OTC dosages of cough syrup to impact the brain (IOW, enough ethanol will be metabolized before it can reach brain cells to avoid demonstrable impact), although there is no question that if one drinks enough cough syrup or vanilla made with ethanol, brain cells will be affected. There is a lot of research on animal models, and some in-vitro studies as well. See below. Alcohol causes developing neurons to undergo apoptosis, or cell death, earlier than they 'ought' to by altering internal cellular chemistry: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14741749 ....By altering glutamate and GABA transmission alcohol suppresses neuronal activity, causing millions of nerve cells to commit suicide in the developing brain. This proapoptotic effect of alcohol provides a likely explanation for the diminished brain size and lifelong neurobehavioral disturbances associated with the human fetal alcohol syndrome. These findings have public health significance, not only in relation to fetal alcohol syndrome, but also in relation to several other drugs of abuse and various drugs used in obstetric and pediatric medicine, because these additional drugs (e.g. phencyclidine, ketamine, benzodiazepines, barbiturates) also suppress neuronal activity and drive developing neurons to commit suicide. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10852851 [a sort of overview WRT brain neurotoxins, 2000] "Critical periods of vulnerability for the developing nervous system: evidence from humans and animal models" > Certainly pre-modern civilizations have had their > luminaries, and unless some new evidence comes to > light, its only natural to assume that some drank > wine or alcohol as children, in some form or another > (primarily thinking about Rome and Europe here....) I really don't know how much it would take to measurably impact intellect; our brains are pretty bloody amazing, and the damage they can sustain before it becomes 'visible' varies from person to person. It has become evident from recent research that neural stem cells *do* exist past infancy, and can differentiate i.e. some repair of brain function *is* possible after neuron destruction. Ethanol affects not only the fetal developing brain, but adult neurogenensis as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12817652 [2003] Recent findings concerning the regenerative potential of the adult brain suggest a more pronounced plasticity than previously thought. One such finding is the generation of new neurons in the adult brain (neurogenesis). Loss of neurons has long been considered to be irreversible in the adult human brain, i.e., dead neurons are not replaced. The inability to generate replacement cells is thought to be an important cause of neurological disease and impairment. In most brain regions, the generation of neurons is generally confined to a discrete developmental period. Exceptions have recently been described in several regions of the brain that have been shown to generate new neurons well into the postnatal and adult period. One of the best characterized regions is the subgranular zone of the dentate gyrus in the brain, where granule neurons are generated throughout life from a population of progenitor/ stem cells. Furthermore, recent findings suggest that neurogenesis may be of importance for memory function as well as mood disorders. Several very important questions can be formulated on the basis of these discoveries, for instance, what factors influence the generation of new neurons and whether it is possible for enhanced neurogenesis to contribute to functional recovery. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15303631 [2003]....This article addresses two principal questions concerning alcohol and adult neurogenesis: To what extent are neurogenesis in the adult brain and the risk for alcoholism governed by similar factors? And, to what extent and through what mechanisms do alcohol use and alcoholism affect adult neurogenesis? This article also discusses genetic and environmental influences on risk for alcoholism and on regulation of neurogenesis; the possibility that modulation of neurogenesis contributes to alcoholic pathology; and the evidence that alcohol disrupts neurogenesis in the adult brain, and the neurochemical processes by which this may occur. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12605082 ....The aim of this symposium was to review research on the effects of ethanol on neural stems cells and neurogenesis. Ethanol is known to alter neurogenesis during development; however, recent studies indicate that the brain forms new neurons from stem cells throughout life. Furthermore, stem cells can be transplanted into the brain, creating exciting new possibilities to study brain function....These studies clearly establish that ethanol has significant effects on stem cells. So I can't really answer your question accurately; what I think most docs would agree with is that "just to be on the safe side" pregnant women should consume no alcohol whatsoever (if I were pregnant, I would go for the grape juice at Communion), and children should consume no alcohol until puberty, and then very little at table. [I think allowing a teen to have some of what the folks are having is reasonable; from my decidedly anecdotal experience, we girls who were allowed a bit of alcohol before college did not engage in binge-drinking, while my girlfriends who were forbidden to drink just 'lost it' and got drunk a _lot_; the outcome with boys was not so clear.] There *are* ethanol-free cough syrups (ask your pharmacist); various extracts (like vanilla) contain miniscule amounts of ethanol and it's mostly boiled/baked/vaporized off during the preparation process. A 10+ year-old child having a half-glass of wine with dinner IMO is far less likely to have any measurable damage than one who gulps 4-5 glasses of wine on Fri and Sat nights; it may even turn out that regular tiny dosages have essentially no brain impact because of 1) induction of alcohol-metabolizing enzymes, and 2) repair/replacement of damaged neurons by neurogenesis. Debbi who is very conservative when it comes to personal medical issues __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
