Combining a couple of threads (with snippage
throughout), and a nod to Keith's phrasing...
> Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Robert Seeberger wrote:
> > > But from a genetic point of view....a parents
> > > sole (in terms of
> > > genetics) purpose in life is to protect ones
> > > offspring. (And/or to produce more.)
> > > Another idea that comes to mind is that morality
> > > and ethics are new
> > > things that have only existed for a few thousand
> > > years, but genetic
> > > imperatives have been around for at least a
> > > billion years.
> > Our brains likewise have many many millions of
> years
> > steeped in "reptile" mode & function [food, sex],
> many
> > millions of years in "mammal" mode [food, sex,
> > offspring, social hierarchy], millions in primate
> > mode [food, sex, offspring, social hierarchy and
> society,
> > curiosity/fun], and much less as _Homo
sapiens_....
> That's all true, but I was thinking more along the
> lines of
> [reproduce] [compete for resources] [ensure
> proliferation of your
> genetic package] as being the primal genetic
> imperatives.
And that is part of the "reptile brain" as well,
though parental behavior is not as prevalent as among
the warmblooded animals [alligators, frex, are very
good mothers; and of course there are fish that also
care for their young (frex cichlids)].
> What I'm thinking is that it is odd to call a system
> that has worked
> well (and indeed, led to our existence) irrational.
> It has to have
> followed some sort of logical system of rules, else
> it would have
> failed. IOW genetics and the imperatives that have
> evolved out of
> genetics are an ordered system, subject to the
> effects of chaos, but not chaotic itself.
I agree, although maybe that wasn't very clear, since
I wrote about 'not dissing emotions just because.' As
Gary N pointed out, parental bonds are not merely 'in
the mind' but have measurable effects in parental
brains. I think this was mentioned a while back in
the form of prolacin levels in wolf packs that had
puppies: not only the parents but _all_ the adult
wolves of the pack had elevated levels of this "stay
and play" hormone. Protecting puppies is important to
even non-parental adults; similarly we are more
outraged by abusers of children than abusers of
adults, and instinctively move to protect children who
are quite unrelated to us (I'm thinking of the recent
story of a man who jumped into the ocean to save some
boys in trouble (in FL?), and lost his own life in the
attempt).
We humans seem to generalize that protective impulse
much more than non-domestic animals; frex male lions
will kill the young cubs if they take over a pride
(inducing the females to ovulate -> mate), but humans
capturing and raising unrelated young children as full
members of the tribe was not uncommon (using them as
slaves also occured, but at least they were alive).
So I think this shows how a genetic imperative -> a
moral or ethical precept.
Unthinkingly obeying the protective drive can of
course lead to an individual's death, as when an adult
who cannot swim jumps into a lake upon seeing a
drowning child [aside: I think in the FL case above,
however, the man was able to save 2 of the boys before
dying, b/c he was a fair swimmer]. I am also struck
by the apparent insanity of marching en masse into
gunfire, a la Gallipoli etc. etc.; maybe that's
derived from a sort of herding instinct? I personally
can't imagine doing that merely for the sake of
status/future rewards, and have read somewhere that
'ultimately soldiers fight for their fellow soldiers,
not for a flag.' I presume that applies only to going
away from home to battle, because certainly defending
home territory is deeply ingrained in many (probably
most) vertebrates.
Debbi
But Not, Not The Six Hundred Maru
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