At 05:34 PM 3/5/2004 -0500 Tom Beck wrote: >www.presidentialprayerteam.org > >Why does this bother me so much? Since I have no fear whatsoever that >being Jewish (and, therefore, not being "saved" as these Christians put >it) means I'm going to hell (as a Jew, I don't believe in anything like >hell), why does it bother me that people like this delude themselves >that Jews (and, by definition, Muslims, Hindus, etc.) are going to >hell? It's a free country; they have the right to be wrong.
Huh? Did I visit the same website that you did? I admit that I didn't dig very deep, but I foudn scant mention of Jews or of hell on this website. I even ran searches for "hell" and "Jews" The former came up with 1 match, the latter only 3. Of these four references, I would hope that you would acctually *applaud* two of the references, all except the first and penultimate reference, and on at least those ones, I would hope that you would at least respectively disagree - rather than insinuate something evil. Here are details of the search results: http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org/?id=909 PRAYER OF FAITH AND HOPE IN GOD My God, I love Thee--not because I hope for heaven thereby, Nor yet because who love Thee not must die eternally. Thou, O my Jesus, Thou didst me upon the Cross embrace; For me didst nails and spear endure, and manifold disgrace. Why, then why, O blessed Jesus Christ, should I not love Thee well? Not for the hope of winning heaven, or of escaping hell-- Not with the hope of gaining aught, nor seeking a reward, But as Thyself hast loved me, O ever-loving Lord! E'en then I love Thee and will love, and in Thy praise will sing Solely because Thou art my God and my eternal King. --Anonymous Latin Hymn http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org/?id=72 A PRAYER FOR OUR NATION (In honor and memory of the 6-month anniversary of the tragic events of September 11, 2001) "We thank you, dear Father, for these hours of unity. Christians are praying with Jews. Republicans are standing with Democrats. Skin colors have been covered by the ash of burning buildings. We thank you for these hours of unity. And we thank you for these hours of prayer. The Enemy sought to bring us to our knees and succeeded. He had no idea, however, that we would kneel before you. And he has no idea what you can do. Let your mercy be upon our President, Vice President, and their families. Grant to those who lead us wisdom beyond their years and experience. Have mercy upon the souls who have departed and the wounded who remain. Give us grace that we might forgive and faith that we might believe." -- Max Lucado Excerpted from a prayer originally spoken at America Prays, September 15, 2001. http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org/?id=909 OUR NATION'S GODLY HERITAGE Lawgiver and New Testament Author at Home in Washington, D.C. Our nation's capital is filled with imagery and references that point directly to the biblically based intentions of our Founders. Many of the greatest Christian figures of history are depicted throughout Washington, DC. Moses and St. Paul, are two of them. This photo shows the Main Reading Room of the Library of Congress, a magnificent arena displaying the great figures of history. Photo courtesy of the Library of Congress. Moses' likeness is seen both as a lawgiver on the frieze atop the Supreme Court Building as well as in the Main Reading Room of the Library of Congress. Moses is noted for his renown as a prophet, teacher and lawgiver. He is honored and revered by both Jews and Christians for his role in establishing the Ten Commandments--the laws from which all other laws of civilized society have sprung. As "one who spoke with God" he is portrayed with honor throughout Washington, D.C. St. Paul is also portrayed in a large sculpture in the Library of Congress. He is admired for his education and knowledge, but he is especially known for his work as the first missionary who spread Christian faith and doctrine far beyond Jerusalem into Europe. He planted churches all across Asia and the Mediterranean. His elegantly-written epistles have been translated into more languages and read by more people than any other works throughout the centuries. At a time when, sadly, many of the visible reminders of our nation's godly heritage are being removed from public view, one need only make a visit to numerous sites in our nation's capital to see the strong, historic reliance on God. http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org/?id=889 Those Who Attend Church More Likely To Do Kind Acts, Study Says A survey by the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago shows that religious people are kinder than others. The survey confirms what many already knew to be true, that regular attendance in religious services generates kindness toward others. The survey found that people who never attend religious services perform on average 96 acts of kindness per year, while those who are weekly churchgoers or participate in other spiritual activities reported performing an average of 128 acts of kindness per year--a difference of more than 25%. The acts of kindness reported included donating blood, giving directions to a stranger, giving food or money to a homeless person, offering one's seat on a bus or in a public place to a stranger who is standing, or spending time talking with someone who is down or depressed. Protestants, Catholics and Jews who participated in the study all reported about the same readiness to do acts of kindness. >I guess it's because, as a Jew, I'm aware of the 2 millennia during >which so-called Christians did not just believe Jews were damned; they >actively tried to send us to hell prematurely. Or they forced us to >convert. And in every other way tried to convince us that their >Christian love was better. I think that part-in-parcel with "freedom of religion" is the right to evangelize, and the right to tune out evangelizers. I will certainly never begrudge the right of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses to knock on my door. To the best of my understanding, I believe that Jews do not beleive in evangelization, but I would hope that you would agree that the right to peacefully and non-coercively evangelize should be a basic freedom in a free society. I also find it slightly offensive to accuse "Christians" of "actively trying to send Jews to hell prematurely" for 2 millennia. While it is certainly true of some Christians, I don't think that it is very appropriate to make such a claim *today* about Christians in general. That is the logic of Bosnians and Serba, Israelis and Palestinians, Pakistanis and Indians, Hutus and Tutsis, and every other intractable conflict in the world. >Still, this is most definitely his base, people who think like this >self-appointed Presidential Prayer Team. They represent a small >minority of Americans, yet have a greatly exaggerated voice in the >Republican Party and in the Bush Administration. So even if Bush >himself is not as extreme, he can't but be influenced by them. And, as >a member of not only a minority faith, but a faith persecuted for two >thousand years by people who think very much like members of this >Prayer Team, I think I have a right to be pissed off and apprehensive >at the idea of people like this having the President's ear. > >(By the way, Catholics shouldn't be too pleased with these people, >either, since it is an article of faith among extreme right-wing >Protestants that Catholicism isn't really Christianity; read the Bob >Jones University Web site.) I am sorry Tom, but I really hope that you do not understand what you are saying. As I read it, you are saying that you are deeply bothered by the thought of a practicing Christian being President of the United States. If you do not see how offensive that is, imagine a Christian saying that he or she is deeply bothered by the thought of a practicing Jew being President of the United States. In addition, you seem to be deeply bothered that Christians are using the Internet to pray to God on behalf of our country and our elected leaders. Again, please imagine that a Christian is deeply bothered about Jews praying for our country and our elected leaders - especially an elected Jewish President. Imagine if this Christian said, "The President can't help but be influenced by these people." I can't help but imagine you demouncing such a statement as mere "code words" for "The Illuminati" and Anti-Semitism. Tom, as a Christian and a Catholic, I deeply regret the crimes committed in the name of my God and my religion against Jews. Nevertheless, I also feel very strongly that the crimes committed by our ancestors should not limit the ability and freedom of modern-day Christians to practice their religion freely, with love and charity for all people of all faiths, and to also be full participants of America's body politic. When you make posts like this one, Tom, what you are basically saying is that you would be deeply bothered by the President of this country being elected from a very large proportion of our populace. Furthermore, you are saying that you are bothered by the people of the majority-religion in this country praying for our elected leaders. I'm sorry, Tom, but when you make such statements, you are not helping the cause of Anti-Anti-Semitism at all. JDG _______________________________________________________ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03 _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
