----- Original Message ----- From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Mexican Diplomat Charged With Helping Smuggle Arabs Into U.S.
[Snip Stories of family excesses] > Before I address the issue of reporting the guy, let me back up a step. The > discussion in the thread was whether people would take jobs that illegal > immigrants take for the pay that illegal immigrants make; in other words, > would tossing out illegals directly translate to more jobs for Americans. I > think the answer to that is pretty clearly "no" at this point, as shown by > my quote earlier on the income of farm workers and by your example of > illegal immigrant roofers being paid less than minimum wage. Yes, I am guilty of unanchoring the thread. <G> But back to the discussion at large: I think it is important to note that roofers and fruit pickers do not typify the overall employment of illegal aliens. Also important is the incredibly vast undereporting of illegal worker numbers. > > Having said that, I'd like to remind you that the report I was quoting on > farm workers was on *all* farmworkers, not just illegal alien farmworkers. > There are a few Americans who make a living (such as it is) following crops > around the country, but they are the vast minority in the industry from my > understanding of it. If all the illegals were tossed out of the country, > the farming industry as we know it in America would cease to exist. There > would be almost no one willing to do the work these people do at the rates > of pay these people accept for their work and under the conditions in which > they work. Food prices would skyrocket because the cost of hiring people to > harvest the food would skyrocket. Of course this would only affect the part > of the farm industry where there is not a lot of automation (or possibly not > any way to do automation). And I'm pretty sure economies of scale would > play into it as well, with giant corporate farms having more money available > to hire higher priced workers, giving the corporate farms yet another > advantage over the small-farm owner. And if in addition to deporting all > the illegal aliens, we also threw in jail everyone who hired them, then not > only would we have very few farmworkers left in America, we'd also have not > many farm owners left. I'm gratified to see that you understand the labor market, because *that* is how it works! BTW....I'm not promoting the idea that Illegal aliens should be kicked out of the US wholesale, but that immigration law should be modified to reflect reality and that American citizen lawbreakers (in regards to the subject of this discussion) should be brought to trial and vilified not just for breaking the law, but for attempting to set policy via means outside the established methods. [OTT Statement] If we continue to allow employers to hire illegal aliens and then offer amnesties over and over then, then if we are consistant, we will forgive the debts of tax evaders and make marijuana legal because so many participate in those acts. > > I've followed the farmworkers issue for quite a while. My family has > fortunately never had to do that kind of work (Dad was in the military for a > while as a radar guy, then worked for Bendix and eventually retired as an > electrician from AT&SF Railway Company, and Mom was a professional > cosmetologist and even taught cosmetology for a while), but social justice > issues have always been important to my family and in the hispanic community > (at least around KC), the migrant farmworkers issue has always been one of > the more prominent social justice issues. So I guess I knew about some of > the complexity of the migrant farmworkers issue going back just about as far > as I can remember. That is probably a bigger issue down in the Texas Valley (near the Mexican border) than it is in my area. Here the issues (for Hispanics) tend more toward employment opportunity, educational opportunity, and the police breaking down your door in the middle of the night and killing you. > But I never knew much about the construction issue until > I met this guy my niece decided to marry. I just assumed that the same kind > of complexity existed in that industry as well and decided not to jump to > conclusions about the guy who hired my niece's husband. Hopefully not > everyone in construction who hires illegals is as much of a profiteer as > your cousin. > No, they all aren't. Especially the larger firms (large enough to be audited occasionally for whatever reasons) are quite progressive in their hiring and management practices. I know several smallish companies that treat all their employees equally and fairly. But there are enough of the other kind who underpay illegal aliens, not as a method towards competition, but for personal enrichment. Its the next best thing to owning slaves. xponent Fairness Fairy Maru rob _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
