--- "Robert J. Chassell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> commented
> on some Near-death experiences (NDE) that they are
> 
>     Vehhh-rrrhy Interesting - But Not-Proof
> 
> which I agree with.  But the reports are suggestive,
> aren't they?

<grin>  As I said - very interesting.  And not yet
well-researched enough (although I shudder to think of
what near-death studies *have* been done by some of
the monstrous so-called doctors of some WWII
enemies...horrible <grimace>).  I think the accurate
knowledge/memories of where people/objects in the
room-of-clinical-death were is the most fascinating
(and inexplicable), from a "hunh??" standpoint.
 
> Most of the controversy comes from the definition of
> the word `death'
> which is "... unconsciousness caused by insufficient
> blood supply to
> the brain."  Under such circumstances brain is still
> alive because
> non-moving blood has some oxygen left in it; and in
> any case, brain
> cells without oxygen taken some time to die (but not
> very long).  Such
> a person, is not dead as we think normally of death.
> That is why `death' is prefixed by the term
>`clinically'.
> 
>     "...Blackmore says science can also explain
>those tunnels: Electrical brain scans show that in
our
> last moments, as the brain is deprived of oxygen,
> cells fire frantically and at random in the part of
> the brain which govern vision.
> 
>     "Now, imagine that you've got lots and lots of
> cells firing in the middle, towards fewer at the
>outside, what's it going to look like? Bright light
in
> the middle fading off towards dark at the outside,"
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/DrJohnson/GMA020108Near_death_experiences.html
> 
>     <grin> Of course, that means you must imagine
> that instead of the
>     documented *random* neuron firing, you are
> positing *coordinated* neuron firing...
> 
> Right.  Blackmore is saying that outer cells stop
> firing before inner cells.

Yes - but that isn't the same as the *known random*
firing pattern! 
 
>     In my own near-drowning, I saw sparkly lights
> against a dark-grey
>     background, which is consistant with a
> random-fire pattern
> 
> which suggests that you were not as nearly dead as
> some of the others.  This was fortunate for you... 

:)  No kidding!  I certainly didn't have a calm
peaceful moment either - more like "I'm going to ruin
everyone's vacation if I die here!"  with a few
expletives and other scrambled thoughts deleted...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11755611&dopt=Abstract
> 
>     "...We do not know why so few cardiac patients
> report NDE after
>     CPR, although age plays a part. With a purely
> physiological
>     explanation such as cerebral anoxia for the
> experience, most
>     patients who have been clinically dead should
> report one."
> 
> Alternatively, humans have different responses to a
> shortage of oxygen
> in the brain.  It is already known that humans have
> different reponses to other events.

And perhaps those who experience these more 'mystical'
NDEs have other variables in common that we haven't
noticed or discovered yet. 
 
> As you say, this is very interesting.  But
> Blackmore's work and your
> near-drowning certainly does fit a `losing oxygen'
> model of cells' behavior rather than anything else.

Yes, although I think that Blackmore, by positing a
more-coordinated firing pattern rather than the
documented random one, is finessing the current data a
bit.

Debbi
who actually would have liked to have had such a
'mystical' experience, but in my several brushes with
the 'Shadow,' I probably wasn't "clinically dead" -
although I wasn't breathing for "a few moments" in at
least two, according to eyewitnesses

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